On the Ball (new Football Focus)

[????]

The old 3lb line and best ground bait always hooks them in....just a patient wait;-)

[Atila Reincarnate]

If life is all about change, there are also some constants, like people being very touchy about others knocking the team they love. It's good to see some things haven't changed in my absence!! I've always said it's ok for me to knock my team, but supporters of other clubs should never even think about it. Perhaps I should start to practice what I preach. 2 hopes, ...........slim & Bob!!!

[Sandperson]

Stevie G out for three weeks. How important is that?

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Manchester City and England defender Micah Richards has been arrested on suspicion of assault after an incident outside a nightclub in Greater Manchester.

Its all going on up North.. Sparky Hughs needs to get house in order.. starting to turn into Leeds Utd

[Atila Reincarnate]

Sandperson Wrote:

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> Stevie G out for three weeks. How important is

> that?

For Liverpool, that's massive. He is the heart and soul of that side. How many times has he pulled them out of the fire on his own??

[Keef]

Stevie G out for three weeks. How important is that?

On last nights evidence it's pretty huge! That said, there have been games in the past (particularly big eurpean games) where I have thought we'd be in trouble without him, and we've come through it really well!

[Sandperson]

John Terry. I am neither mocking transexuals or people from Warrington but you have to admit it's uncanny!

[Jah Lush]

Football is a team game and whether it's Liverpool or any other side you shouldn't have to rely too much on one player. Reminds me of how much Man Utd used to rely on the genius of George Best to get them out of the shit when they were a fading ageing side. No wonder he went off the rails.

[matthew123]

Gerrard is the greatest midfielder in the history of the Premiership and would walk into any of the great Liverpool teams from history. Of course he will be missed as a player, he is probably the 2nd best player in the world after Lionel Messi - but Liverpool have also played very well as a team when he has been absent. Who will ever forget that balmy night in Turin when Gerrard was suspended and Liverpool outplayed the Italian Champions Juventus in their own backyard in 2005.

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

A Manchester United groundsman has revealed he caught a player sunbathing under UV lights on the pitch at Old Trafford.

The member of United's ground staff said he discovered the player attempting to top up his tan by lying under ultraviolet lights used to encourage the turf to grow.

When asked for his highlight of the year, the groundsman said: "Finding a player sunbathing on the pitch under the grow lights!"

He declined to identify the player, although fans have joked it might be Portuguese winger Cristiano Ronaldo, who developed an astonishingly rich tan during summer 2008.

Man utd full of lady men if you ask me.

[lard]

matthew123 Wrote:

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> Gerrard is the greatest midfielder in the history

> of the Premiership and would walk into any of the

> great Liverpool teams from history. Of course he

> will be missed as a player, he is probably the 2nd

> best player in the world after Lionel Messi - but

> Liverpool have also played very well as a team

> when he has been absent. Who will ever forget that

> balmy night in Turin when Gerrard was suspended

> and Liverpool outplayed the Italian Champions

> Juventus in their own backyard in 2005.

I'm a Liverpool supporter, but you can't have a greatest midfielder in the history of the premiership from a team that hasn't won it.

Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Viera, Petit, Lampard, Pires have all arguably had more impact in the premiership alone.

[matthew123]

Why not?

[Keef]

As a player I'd put Gerrard above most of those guys, but agree with Lard's point. I'd say Giggs is the premiership's greatest all time player for several reasons.

[matthew123]

What reasons would they be Keef apart from longevity - I'd say his behaviour on the pitch is top class, how many other players can you think of who will always roll the ball back to the opposition goalkeeper when there is a goal kick? Personally I think Giggs is well respected but has not delivered much of the promise shown as a teenage wing wonder, although still an outstanding player I would say there is only one Thierry Henry.

As for greatest midfielders, Giggs is excluded due to being a winger even if in the autumn of his career his now play as a wide midfielder.

[Mick Mac]

I afree with lard - there are many other contenders - but when Roy Keane was at his best, he had no equal - and don't say Viera.

I think Gerrard is an excellent ATTACKING midfielder, but Keane had it all, he won the ball all over the pitch, perfect distribution and scored goals.

Gerrard looks especially good because he has probaby the best long shot the premiership has ever seen - but I don't think he is the best all round midfielder.

[matthew123]

Patrick Viera was a fantastic midfielder and for me had the edge over Keane with his superior touch and speed. I remember one game at Old Trafford when Keane couldn't get anywhere near Viera. Roy Keane was a fantastic box to box all action dynamo and right up there with the greats over last 20 years.

The reason I say Gerrard is number 1 is not because he keeps popping up with historically defining goals it's because he unlike any other player can turn a game however good or bad the opposition, I cannot think of a more influential midfielder now or in the past. There is nothing that Steven Gerrard has not got - he has pace, power, hunger, he can pass, shoot, head, he can tackle he can keep going to the final whistle... under pressure he keeps delivering.

It's not just about whether you've won the title otherwise we'd be talking about Darren Fletcher.

[Sandperson]

Darren Fletcher is a good player. Ask any Scotland fan.

You remember one game when Viera bossed Keane? I can remember lots where it was the other way round. Give me Keane over Gerard any day and what are these 'historically defining goals'? Giggs, winger or midfielder? Who cares? He's one of the greatest midfielders we'll ever see. As far as other teams go, I'd take Viera and Gerard but there aren't many others I'd choose over United old boys.

[matthew123]

Surely everyone agrees that Thierry Henry and Alan Shearer are the two greatest strikers since the start of the Premiership - I challenge anyone to say otherwise!?

I know everyone has their own favourite players from usually their own team, so I'll keep this neutral and say which of the "great" United players would get into the Arsenal Invincibles? I'd hazard a guess and say that great team would contain more Arsenal than United.

[lard]

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely everyone agrees that Thierry Henry and Alan

> Shearer are the two greatest strikers since the

> start of the Premiership - I challenge anyone to

> say otherwise!?

>

> I know everyone has their own favourite players

> from usually their own team, so I'll keep this

> neutral and say which of the "great" United

> players would get into the Arsenal Invincibles?

> I'd hazard a guess and say that great team would

> contain more Arsenal than United.

Neither Henry or Shearer had the same impact as Eric Cantona

Utd pre Cantona and post Cantona are two different clubs.

[matthew123]

I don't mean this as a slight on Cantona but his years at Old Trafford, 92 to 97, conincided with a big downturn in the quality of English football. There was hardly any competition for United domestically, I know Blackburn and Newcastle challenged briefly but the big boys like Arsenal and Liverpool were in serious decay. Look at the England team of that period who were made up of such players as Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Nigel Clough, John Fashnau, Des Walker. In any other era most of those star players wouldn't get a game in the top flight never mind play for England - and this was a microcosm of the Premiership competition in which Cantona excelled.

What United did domestically still counts in the record books, and I don't want to take that away, but you have to look at what United and in particular Cantona did in Europe during this period. Cantona never made an impression on the international stage either. I doubt Eric Cantona would be the same force today with less liberal referees and where a lack of pace is given no quarter. He was an icon for United but I think it's wrong to class him in the same bracket as Henry and Shearer, who both did it domestically and on the european and international stage.

[Atila Reincarnate]

lard Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> matthew123 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Surely everyone agrees that Thierry Henry and

> Alan

> > Shearer are the two greatest strikers since the

> > start of the Premiership - I challenge anyone

> to

> > say otherwise!?

> >

> > I know everyone has their own favourite players

> > from usually their own team, so I'll keep this

> > neutral and say which of the "great" United

> > players would get into the Arsenal Invincibles?

> > I'd hazard a guess and say that great team

> would

> > contain more Arsenal than United.

>

> Neither Henry or Shearer had the same impact as

> Eric Cantona

>

> Utd pre Cantona and post Cantona are two different

> clubs.

Having seen both players in their pomp, I can safely say Henry wwas differnt class and way better than Cantona (some would argue Beckham had a greater impact on the United side than the moody Frenchman) on a number of levels, regardless of my affiliation to the Arsenal. As for Shearer, he was an out and out goal scorer who could hold the ball and could score great goals. As for who is the greatest player I've seen in the prem, it has to be Bergkamp closley followed by Henry. Giggs is a good player but not on the same level as these guys at the height of their powers. I'm sure others views will differ, but hey, that's my view.

[Atila Reincarnate]

Blackburn 2 Aston Villa 0

Chelsea 1 Hull 0

Everton 2 Bolton 0

Man City 2 Middlesbrough 1

Portsmouth 1 Liverpool 1

Sunderland 1 v Stoke 0

West Brom 2 v Newcastle 0

Wigan 1 v Fulham 1

Tottenham 1 v Arsenal 2

West Ham 1 Man U 3

[Ted Max]

Matthew you stretch a point on the general quality of England at that era, which includes the Euro '96 side. You could have picked Lineker, Gascoigne, Beardsley, Shearer, Seaman, Dixon, Adams to reverse the picture.

I would tentatively suggest that Gerrard has too many poor games to be considered automatic best ever. He's certainly a dominant personality and fantastic player. I think his need to be dominant, though, and the need of the Liverpool team for him to lead, contributes to these poor games, as he over-stretches and starts to lose his passing and positional play.

[Sandperson]

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't mean this as a slight on Cantona but his

> years at Old Trafford, 92 to 97, conincided with a

> big downturn in the quality of English football.

> There was hardly any competition for United

> domestically, I know Blackburn and Newcastle

> challenged briefly but the big boys like Arsenal

> and Liverpool were in serious decay. Look at the

> England team of that period who were made up of

> such players as Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer,

> Nigel Clough, John Fashnau, Des Walker. In any

> other era most of those star players wouldn't get

> a game in the top flight never mind play for

> England - and this was a microcosm of the

> Premiership competition in which Cantona excelled.

>

>

> What United did domestically still counts in the

> record books, and I don't want to take that away,

> but you have to look at what United and in

> particular Cantona did in Europe during this

> period. Cantona never made an impression on the

> international stage either. I doubt Eric Cantona

> would be the same force today with less liberal

> referees and where a lack of pace is given no

> quarter. He was an icon for United but I think

> it's wrong to class him in the same bracket as

> Henry and Shearer, who both did it domestically

> and on the european and international stage.

I don't want to start a row about this but your comments on Europe are a little galling. The possibility that the performance of Englih teams in Europe might have been a little better if we hadn't been banned from playing there due to certain incidents...also the United team of the early and mid 90's was a victim of the ridiculous rule limiting the amount of foreign players allowed in a squad.

As far as Cantona goes he was right for us, he changed the club and he started us on a raod to where we are now. He was an excellent player, a legend at OT, but I can't expect anyone else to understand the impact he had at the club and the belief he brought with him. Bergkamp was a great player, Terry Henry was the greatest striker I have seen and I truely believe that David Beckham was one of the best players we will ever see play.

[Keef]

Fowler at his best was as good as any striker. Unfortunately injuries really ruined his career, but he was great! I think to call Giggs just a winger is very harsh on the guy!