Jade Goody

[dulwichmum]

I have just read this entire thread and I am horrified by what has been written. I have held so many on here in such high esteem, I thought that you were so incredibly bright.

Jade had a bloody difficult start, the most difficult. She managed to become a dental nurse. I personally think that is a huge achievement for someone so neglected. I have nothing but respect for her. She lived for her children, I do not care whether it is distasteful to you how she earned her living. Max Clifford is a parasite.

I just hope that she had a peaceful death and that her sons manage to survive their childhood.

Shame on so many of you here. It is so easy to have high morals when you don't have any idea what the hell you are talking about.

[Mikecg]

Well done DM you have just been promoted.(tu)

[Ann]

Thank you DM , very well said.

[woofmarkthedog]

Yes D.M

We live in the valley of the valley of the x-box

[david_carnell]

dulwichmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have just read this entire thread and I am

> horrified by what has been written. I have held

> so many on here in such high esteem, I thought

> that you were so incredibly bright.

>

> Jade had a bloody difficult start, the most

> difficult. She managed to become a dental nurse.

> I personally think that is a huge achievement for

> someone so neglected. I have nothing but respect

> for her. She lived for her children, I do not

> care whether it is distasteful to you how she

> earned her living. Max Clifford is a parasite.

>

> I just hope that she had a peaceful death and that

> her sons manage to survive their childhood.

>

> Shame on so many of you here. It is so easy to

> have high morals when you don't have any idea what

> the hell you are talking about.

Bollocks, quite frankly.

Most of the time DM, I quite enjoy your tongue-in-cheek bon mots, but don't go and ruin it by getting all sanctimonious on us. It doesn't suit you. Stick to jokes about chablis and Eastern-European au-pairs and leave the serious stuff to the "bright" people you no longer hold in high esteem.

How on earth do you know the personal circumstances of those posting? Perhaps they have had a close relative or parent die of cancer and find the unedifying spectacle of a rather unpleasant, so-called celebrity milking the mawkish emotions of vast swathes of the British public for every grubby penny her publicist can get her to be a sign of a larger social decline.

[Moos]

David, that post was quite extraordinarily patronising.

"Stick to jokes about chablis and Eastern-European au-pairs and leave the serious stuff to the "bright" people you no longer hold in high esteem"?

Did you read it before hitting Post message?

[david_carnell]

Mine was patronising?!

Sorry you found it such Moos, but I don't think I'll be alone in finding irony in someone who cultivates a forum-personality of a shallow-alcoholic with a penchant for designer clothes and lunching, getting all hoity over the coverage given to Jade's death by some other forumites who are rather more well known for their considered, thoughtful and serious postings.

My reference to "bright people" was merely using DM's own words, nothing more.

[*Bob*]

Jades stock-in-trade was being talked about; cheered and slagged-off in equal measure. So this is all something of a fitting epitaph.. and may even have been, as they say, what she would have wanted.

[Moos]

d_c, we'll have to agree amicably to disagree - I'm afraid your tone came across as 'get back in your box, little woman'. I may have been alone in reading it that way, but that is how I read it and that's why I posted. I see no reason whatsoever why DM or any other poster shouldn't step out of character and make a serious point, and I don't think one needs a portfolio of "serious work" in order to have credibility - each post stands or falls on its own merit.

*Bob*, you make a good point!

[david_carnell]

Hopefully it can be an amicable disagreement because I'm afraid I disagree entirely with you.

Firstly, I certainly give some posters much more credit or respect than others and without sounding simpering I'd include your good self in this category. Over a period of time they have proved themselves educated, erudite and enlightening on subjects far outside my own areas of expertise. Even if I disagree with them there is a level of respect that pervades because they have earned it and I'll listen to them more than usual.

However, many other posters specialise in humorous inanity, and sadly others in rudeness and stupidity. They get short shrift because of this. And I believe that to be fair and how things are in the real world too. Don't act like a wally all the time and when you make a serious comment once-in-a-blue-moon people won't still think of you as such.

And second, even on your terms, I felt DM's post to be wrong and ill-informed. I perhaps went a little OTT in my reply. But not much.

Oh, but I agree with you about *Bob* - good point that man.

[bigbadwolf]

David I agree that it's helpful to have reasonable and intelligent members of the forum who are above descending into the sort of slanging matches I get myself into but you must aknowledge that there are other who use this forum for other reasons i.e comedy value and add to that agenda. Having members who specialize in 'humour' or 'rudeness and insanity' can be a healthy catalyst to the more serious amongst us as I'm sure you'll agree.

[david_carnell]

Oh yes, BBW, I'm not suggesting the forum turns into the House of Commons - full of dull old men having endless serious debates. My issue, and the above argument elaborates on this, is when people (or at least their forum personas) renowned for inane comedy or just plain stupidity/rudeness attempt to sway into serious debates on rare occasions. It just grates with me that they should be given the same level of courtesy.

It's why Joe Pasquale wouldn't make a good Prime Minister and Gordon Brown is shit at jokes.

Although, come to think of it, so is Joe Pasquale.

[daizie]

is david_carnell, Sean?

[Mick Mac]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Firstly, I certainly give some posters much more

> credit or respect than others and without sounding

> simpering I'd include your good self in this

> category. Over a period of time they have proved

> themselves educated, erudite and enlightening on

> subjects far outside my own areas of expertise.

> Even if I disagree with them there is a level of

> respect that pervades because they have earned it

> and I'll listen to them more than usual.

>

> However, many other posters specialise in humorous

> inanity, and sadly others in rudeness and

> stupidity. They get short shrift because of this.

> And I believe that to be fair and how things are

> in the real world too. Don't act like a wally all

> the time and when you make a serious comment

> once-in-a-blue-moon people won't still think of

> you as such.

>

> And second, even on your terms, I felt DM's post

> to be wrong and ill-informed. I perhaps went a

> little OTT in my reply. But not much.

I'm with Moos on this David, surely DM entertains us all - this should not preclude her from making a serious point.

Although I don't agree with it, her point was well made and I have no doubt she is as intelligent as most on this forum.

I'm not sure we should catagorise people as humourous / sensible - the forum is not real life - its a bit of escapism for most, a bit of fun most of the time - But when there is a serious thread surely we are all entitled to an opinion.

I could not disagree more with DM on this, my father having died a dignified death from cancer, but surely we should not jump on people who make a point that perhaps goes agianst the grain, otherwise people will be reluctant to post their opinions.

[mockney piers]

Assuming every post to be on its own merit (and in all fairness DM has come out of character on more than one occasion) I'd breakdown said post to be.

Justifiable emotional reaction. Bold assertion of new stance.

Fair personal opinion, all are entitled to agree or disagree with.

Eleventy second expression of goodwill.

Patronising OTT emotional reaction, D_C is entirely justified in finding distasteful and worthy of denigration.

Had DM left out the last one I'd have thought, fair point oh loved mother of the forum.

As it goes I thought, "fuck you, who the fuck are you to decide on morality and how qualified we are to talk about personal experiences of death and suffering, fuck off frankly" and left it there....well until now obviously.

[bigbadwolf]

Well said Mic Mack.

[david_carnell]

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion Mick, and I've not said anywhere that they shouldn't be. What I said, and if it wasn't clear before then I'll try again, is that some people's opinions I give more weight and respect to than others. And I would encourage others to do the same.

It's why I read books written by eminent academics or specialists in their fields of knowledge, rather than by Gary Bushell or Jeremy Clarkson.

[bigbadwolf]

You don't read the Guardian do you David?

[Moos]

Again, I took no issue with d_c disagreeing with DM in itself. I didn't wholly agree with her post either. And if your general forum persona consists of flippancy and humour, it will of course mean that your serious posts are read differently from those of someone who is habitually serious and thoughtful. But I wholly disagree with someone being told to shut up 'because you're more suited to other topics' (pr?cis of d_c's post, but I think not unfair).

And on DM in particular, she has in the past stepped out of character to discuss nursing- David, you didn't object on that occasion, why not?

Edit to say that I've just read your last and rather than make you repeat your response to Mick Mac, perhaps it's just the appropriateness of tone and approach that we're differing on?

[david_carnell]

BBW - Is that relevant then, to either the death of Ms Goody, or this argument-on-the-side?

[Cassius]

No matter what my opinion is of DM's post, I wonder what david_carnell feels how people who have created on online/forum persona should do if they wish to make a statement or point about something and that sentiment doesn't really fit in with this persona. Should they desist? should they go ahead and risk this sort of commentary? or should they have another log-in where they are themself and not their online persona?

Moos - seem to have cross posted with you

[bigbadwolf]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> BBW - Is that relevant then, to either the death

> of Ms Goody, or this argument-on-the-side?

Probably not.

[david_carnell]

Cassius Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No matter what my opinion is of DM's post, I

> wonder what david_carnell feels how people who

> have created on online/forum persona should do if

> they wish to make a statement or point about

> something and that sentiment doesn't really fit in

> with this persona. Should they desist? should

> they go ahead and risk this sort of commentary?

> or should they have another log-in where they are

> themself and not their online persona?

>

> Moos - seem to have cross posted with you

I suppose, yes, Cassius, they should. I don't mind people having invented personas, even if I have chosen (probably inadvisedly) to use my real name. Like I said, I even quite enjoy DulwichMum's line of satire. But don't spend months, or in DM's case, years, cultivating the "ditzy, chardonnay-sodden, upper-middle-class bored housewife" routine and then be surprised when people shout "...and what the ?$%^ would you know?!"

[Jah Lush]

I'm siding with David on this. I felt DM's post was an ill-informed emotional outburst from a mother who obviously spends too much time reading Hello and OK magazine. She's entitled to her opinion though.

I have a girlfriend who is dying of cancer at the moment, who is going through hell with dignity and grace. I lost my mother to cancer and also had two friends who died of cancer in their early 20s so if you think I give a flying fcuk about Jade Goody whom I've never met you're sadly mistaken.

Yes, it's a shame that anyone of her age and with two small children dies so young but I didn't know the girl and so have no emotional attachment to her.

[bigbadwolf]

Sorry to hear about your girlfriend Jah.