Is Cameron that bad?

[PeckhamRose]

Cameron wants to get rid of long term benefits for genuinely sick people,

and transfer the decision as to their benefits to untrained paper pushers.

To help him, GBrown has made a start.

[ratty]

David Cameron is a b@stard and anyone who votes for him will get what they deserve.

[mockney piers]

Interesting points jimmyjimmy, but you forget hat even during the war he was attacked in parliament and by the media, the retrospective glow of victory meant people quickly chose to forget the doubts and attacks, and of course he was rewarded by promptly being voted out of power.

He was a dman good orator though, which let's face it (as brilliantly written and inspirationalmas many of those speeches were) is more about style than substance isn't it. As someone mentioned earlier it was ever thus.

I'm with bob, I'd lOve people to have a bit more imaginatin and take a leap of faith. Tome and again the liberals are the only ones whomever seem to make much sense about anything and seem focussed on issues and policies. The very least we can do is give them a chance. As dulwichmum SSS labour needs a long long break to take stock and away from self-serving career politicking may be abl to come tomterks with their behavior whilst In power.

Anyone whomthjnks these Tories will be any different idle frankly mad, they may seem more like they're born to power (a disturbing thing in itself) but I see very little genuine ability among their big (or little

for that matter) hitters.

Blimey have you seen a more paranthesised post outside of a java forum?

[titch juicy]

would anyone trust the tories or lib dems to stabilise us financially? i know gordon brown's short sightedness aided the current situation, but surely he's still the best man to bring us out of it? Or is that rather a naive view?

[mockney piers]

Yes. Brown is largely to blame (if not specifically for the sub prime mortgages, certainly for our exposure to it).

Plus he's been responsible for enourmous financial

mismangement hat was largely off balance sheet during his time as chancellor. Seriously, it's like getting Bush senior to sort out the War on drugs on war and it's monstrous creations like Noriega .... Oh.

[dulwichmum]

*Bob* Wrote:

> Don't you mean 'have been worked hard to get

> selected by those schools'?

Maybe they have been worked really hard by these schools, but they will be expected to work really hard by the universities too, the children have not chosen their parents or their schools.

There is no way that the government should encourage bias against top performing independent schools in favour of kids from The Oratory for example, as those children have parents and a school that have worked them just as hard. In fact, their parents have given up their weekends up to ensure they are singing in church each Sunday and doing "good works" for the church to pay for their school places. Just because a child has had supportive or pushy parents, it is not the child's choice. State funding of religious schools should stop. These schools are independent in the same way as fee paying schools.

This is far too serious for me, I am off to find the cork screw...

[daizie]

'State funding of religious schools should stop.'

Here bloody here!! Could'nt agree more DM .

[localgirlwithdreads]

I have this vision of Cameron and his toff chum Boz riding around laughing at all the 'peasants':))

[LegalEagle-ish]

He reminds me of Mr Smith in the Matrix. Seeing humans as a virus to be controlled for their benefit!

[Keef]

Everything is Tony Blair's fault. And in Cameron, we're going to have a carbon copy.

[titch juicy]

Hang on, everything is surely Maggie t's fault. We're still clearing up the carnage from her little party.

[red devil]

You've been warned...

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00262/jedward_262084s.jpg

[Keef]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hang on, everything is surely Maggie t's fault.

> We're still clearing up the carnage from her

> little party.

Sorry, but labour have had enough time to make their mark. Fair enough, things might not be perfect, but there is no excuse for some of their nonsense! I will be equally depressed whoever wins the next election.

[giggirl]

If there were to be a general election tomorrow I would have no idea what to do with my vote. I've always voted labour; but not any more. I would rather leave the country than vote tory. If that guy from the Monster Raving Loony Party hadn't gone and topped himself I think he could be a serious contender next time up - he'd definitely get my vote.

[Keef]

Did he top himself? I thought he had a heart attack or something.

[titch juicy]

i feel the same giggirl

someone mentioned a hung parliament?

d'yer reckon folk would buy a lib dem leaning tabloid if we filled it with boobs and football transfer gossip, and perhaps a page of soap opera plot summaries? cos it scares me that there's so many people in this country that can be genuinely influenced by the currant bun

[dulwichmum]

Have they let Charles Kennedy out of The Priory yet? It is such a shame that he has been so unwell. He had a hell of a lot more about him that anyone the Cons or Lib Dems have come up with since.

[SteveT]

I would feel less loathsome about Brown if he had been elected, but I have never felt that he was up to the job.

Creeping in to rule on the Blair coat-tails should have been illegal.

The thought of Lord Snooty in the driving seat makes me shudder, he looks too young even for an upstart.

Lib-Dems have not blotted their copy book but who has genuine confidence in them?

If you vote BNP then you will have difficulty being employed after the info on you has been dropped on the net by a spiteful party member.

The Greens seem harmless enough to fail miserably.

Ukip naaaah.

We get the government we deserve...........what did we do wrong to deserve this.....oh yeah, we left them to it.

We voted them in, which gave them their job, which was then abused with theft, scandal, and deceit, then we vote them back in!

We do not punish them to the letter of the law, is there really no alternative?

[Moos]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you vote BNP then you will have difficulty

> being employed after the info on you has been

> dropped on the net by a spiteful party member.

Ha ha, was this really the first reason that came to mind for not voting BNP? Their total absence of policy on education, environment, economics, employment or health..... would be the second reason that came to mine.

[SteveT]

Pronounce economics and keep a straight face.

The environment is polluted,

employment is on very lean times,

and the Health service is a long unnecessary wait in the queue for most of us.

How strange you should pick up on that particular point Moos are you feeling threatened?

[mockney piers]

You do realise that we don't vote for a prime minister don't you. You vote for your own elected representative, the majority party(ies) form a government and choose a first minister, the electorate have never voted one in.

Blair may have behaved like a presidential executive but that doesn't mean he was one.

No wonder people don't engage wih the political process if even old warhorses like Steve don't understand it.

[Moos]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pronounce economics and keep a straight face.

> The environment is polluted,

> employment is on very lean times,

> and the Health service is a long unnecessary wait

> in the queue for most of us.

>

>

> How strange you should pick up on that particular

> point Moos are you feeling threatened?

Steve, I've drunk all of my coffee this morning and I'm afraid I still don't understand your post - would you please kindly explain what you mean?

P.S. Waiting lists in the NHS are substantially reduced from what they were a decade or so ago.

[david_carnell]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You do realise that we don't vote for a prime

> minister don't you. You vote for your own elected

> representative, the majority party(ies) form a

> government and choose a first minister, the

> electorate have never voted one in.

>

> Blair may have behaved like a presidential

> executive but that doesn't mean he was one.

> No wonder people don't engage wih the political

> process if even old warhorses like Steve don't

> understand it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who get's fed up with this "Brown wasn't elected" argument.

Err, yes he was - by his constituency.

On topic though:

As a Labour supporter I am fed up with a government that fails to set out a belief system. I want them to tell the electorate what they stand for and why "policy x" will work towards that. When was the last time a politician stood up and announced, "....this is what I stand for" beyond the usual cliches of "hard-working families" etc?

If Brown and the other cabinet ministers would at least do that then I could be vaguely optimistic, even if we lost the election, but currently it feels like they aer clinging to the last vestiges of power and will spend the 6 months rushing out any policies they feel will win a few votes.

As for Cameron - is he that bad? Probably not actually. But neither is he good. Once more we will have a PM who has little ideology or creed to follow. And that leaves him susceptible to policy on the hoof. Only today in the Guardian is this danger exposed with the news that the pro-Israel lobby are major donors. The Tories are there to be bought and swayed. And that is very worrying indeed.

[????]

..and that's not true of New Labour - Ecclestone (Coughs) or to massive vested interests such as the unions?

[david_carnell]

No, you're probably pretty spot-on Quids. That's what I mean. Without a clear manifesto based on ideological principles all governments are susceptible to this sort of thing.

The Ecclestone debacle was, in hindsight, a horrible sign of things to come under Blair.

I'd disagree with you on the union link but perhaps that argument is for another time and another thread.