Keef

I have no figures to be honest, and you may find that benefits are higher in another country, but perhaps rather than "better benefits", it's a case of easier to get benefits... I know that lots of asylum seekers tried to come here from Holland because they felt they could get more here.

All correct, but lets be honest here, some people probably come because they get the most benefits here.

Indeed. And brum, views on here may be cynical, but I don't think anyone has anything other than sympathy for the daughter. She has done nothing wrong, and she's lost her dad. I think the issue is more with the way her grief was, arguably, exploited.

I nominate TonyLS. :-S

Just to clarify, social services will fund it whilst the person is "destitute plus", and has not yet been granted leave to remain, thus has no access to public funds (you may argue that social services is public funds, but that is for another time). Once granted leave to remain, people will be expected to seek work, or sign on, and claim housing benefit. I'm not sure "most" asylum seekers are in this boat (no pun intended), as lots and lots of them will be staying with family or friends, in over crowded flats. Basically Tony, I wanted to defend you a bit in my first post, as I felt that people were labelling you as a biggot, without really reading your points. However, you do seem to just bash on and on and on with the same points, and pick very specific bits of other people's posts to suite your argument, often out of context from that in which they were written. I agree strongly that to raise questions about immigration and asylum, DOES NOT make one a racist BNP/UKIP voting c**t. These things sometimes need discussing, and a lot of people need to worry less about appearing "right on", and saying the right things. However, there are times when you do start to wonder if a person just plain doesn't want other people here.

But Tony, I thought we'd made it clear that that doesn't really happen, at least not to he degree you seem to think it does. Besides, if you'd seen some of the places I've seen, where asylum seekers have been housed, you wouldn't be so quick to want to take their place!

Cook gone already.

Loving the "he... He died for all of us" line.

Santerme, I suspect Tony was just responding to my post, which specifically mentioned a white british person. I doubt he was implying that only white british people benefitted from right to buy.

Having the little girl speaking at the end, was just cringe inducing. I mean, poor thing, but come on!

Right, I am going to wade in now. Basically I read this, and agreed with it, there are too many people out there who just believe they should have a right to live in a council house, and that is as far as they are willing to see, they won't even consider getting out there, working, and renting a private place. These people make me fecking angry if I am honest. However, some of what Tony has said, has been quite true, and people are too quick to shoot him down and label him biggot. I am not talking here about immigrants from within europe, but more asylum seekers, because that is what I know. People who have come and claimed asylum DO NOT get bumped to the top of a queue because they are asylum seekers. However, as Tony quite rightly says, they will present themselves as homeless, and for this reason they are prioritised, just as any white british person would be if they presented themselves as homeless. There is a term "Destitute Plus", whereby a person is destitute, plus they have another issue that makes them vulnerable, such as being homeless (are you staying with me here?). In these circumstances, a local authority has a legal obligation to support this person, and will usually house them. This will NOT be done by housing, but usually by a social services department who will find a private accomodation (because there is no council housing available), and then pay the rent. These people will then be given a "living" fund of around ?30 a week (from which they need to pay for electricity, gas, water, and food). It is not a great life. Where there is a genuine (genuine, but not large) problem IMO, is when people come to Britain for a better deal than they may have gotten elsewhere, and it does happen. I once worked with a guy from Somalia, who had been blinded in war over there, and came here claiming asylum. Fair enough if you ask me, I have always said we should grant asylum to anyone who needs it! However, once he was here, and granted leave to remain, then housed in a social housing, a load of his cousins came over from Holland, where they had claimed, and been granted, asylum. They then managed to get housed, and signed on, and would tell me happily (as I was working with their cousin, they trusted me, and spoke honestly with me) that they were here for the benefits, as they couldn't get them in Holland. Now as far as I am concerned, people who need asylum should get it. I cannot, however, support a person who is granted asylum and housed somewhere, but then decides they'd rather come here for a better deal. The above example was one case, but I saw this kind of thing quite a lot. It is this sort of thing which is highlighted by certain groups, in order to raise bad feeling towards immigrants. I can understand the bad feeling, but what people need to realise, is that the numbers are very small in the great scheme of tings. I remember going to see a white person on a very very white council estate in Eltham, and hearing her rant about "all the immigrants". That estate was 85% white, and those from ethnic minorities quickly moved on because of the abuse they got. Yet she still moaned about all the immigrants taking all the housing! Tony, and SteveT, I put another scenario to you. I know a white girl from Bermondsey, who has grown up in a council house. Her grand dad now lives alone having lost his wife a couple of years back, so she was telling me very proudly, that they were going to move him in with her mum, and that she could then take his flat. If the council asked, they'd tell them she was living there "caring" for her granddad (the council obviously won't be told that he's no longer staying there), and when he passes away, she'll get to keep the flat. Their attitude was, and I quote, "we should keep it in the family". They seemed to think that the flat was actually theirs. How would you describe that behavious, of a white British person, is that fair to all the people on waiting lists? There is a lot more of that stuff going on than there is of immigrants taking the housing. White British people who grow up in social housing, and believe they have a bloody right to it for life. The point has already been made, but the lack of housing is the real issue. If we all had a subsidised place, great. But given the current amount of housing out there, the points system remains the fairest system available to us. That post went on a bit, not quite sure what my point was now, but hopefully there are a couple of decent ones in there.

Only an hour and a half to go. Wish I could sit in the pub all day!

That's no good TT. I remember when I was about 8(ish), turning up to primary school, to learn that one of the teachers (a friendly man who all the kids loved) had been hit by a car and killed. It was a first taste of death for me, and probably most of the kids. Weird thing to deal with, when you don't really get life completely.

An arguement that has happened on here more than once before. I will join in tomorrow when I can be bothered to type. I seem to have sympathies with both sides at the mo.

Mark Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Probably just appointed, someone has already > expressed an interest (in fact they suggested the > serious room a while back when the Lounge became > predominantly silly for a period). Don't worry, > they're good and fair. May I ask then, that the chair (when appointed), be named. It is not the same role as moderator, and I think it's only fair for people to know who their chair is. I didn't realise people could put their names forward, but I think I'd be interested too. Perhaps, it should change regularly. I know it's a different thing, but when I have been part of a group that has met regularly, and kept the same chair for ages, it became stale, and turned to the chair's agenda. I think it's nice to shake things up occasionally with new blood.

You forgot "Seminar Hall". But I don't actually like that now. How about "The Study"?

Me neither, and I think I can do this one, and as it's The Plough, I shall probably make the effort.

Being that you quoted "pretentious knobs", I'm guessing you were quotingme. Can I just make it very clear, that I don't think anyone at G&B is a pretentious knob, or anyone who likes to spend a bit of money on wine (I will spend over a tenner if I want to enjoy a nice bottle). When I said "pretentious knobs", it was aimed at the type of person who would find a price tag vulgar, in any shop. I thought that was plain, but that is now 2 people who have taken my post as either a dig at G&B, or people who like wine, when in fact, it was neither.

Well then as soon as car is moved, and cone put in place, I suggest going and moving the cone, and taking the parking spot. He has no right at all to do that, what a cheeky git!

Can't his arse just be served in a bread roll, and held in a napkin, it is BBQ season after all.

Yay, I win! And Tony, what gives man?

Sounds good. Can there be a vote on chair, or will they just be appointed?

Pleased Yossi Benayoun has signed an extention at Liverpool.

I agree that the ED section feels like the "main" section, probably because it once was, and rooms like the lounge have been breakaways. Agree that a more serious debating room would be good. Can we call it the "seminar room", in tribute to The History Man?

Okay, firstly, I agree it would be great if we were like these other countries, as I said when I agreed with Sean's option a. Secondly, I also said earlier that it is a parent's choice, and my posts have been IMO. I never supported screaming at the woman in any way, but as quids said, in SE London, as things stand, I think the behaviour is unwise.