KidKruger

It may be, in certain situations. But to deny Brexit was heavily built on xenophobia is absurd. And to recognise that xenophobia was a key tool for manipulation is merely an observation. ???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > racism won it, is a trope too

Making comments as part of an Internet forum discussion is just that, it?s not intended to be doing anybody any good. And making observations as one sees fit is not about moving on or otherwise, it?s pertinent in the above context. The ?moving on? trope is facile in this regard.

Let?s hope for the latter then ! 🤞

Challenge the appeal ! If you were acting reasonably and the signage wasn?t clear or open to interpretation it?s definitely winnable. I just won against rejected appeals on CC and ULEZ, I?m now hassling them for compensation. If they want to waste my time and threaten me, they can pay me for my time ! sandyman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, i think one of the problems is consistency of > signeage (if that's a word) > > We recently received a PCN in Lewisham. The red > sign said 'road closed' but there were no planters > or blockages - and lots of cars driving through ? > so we assumed it meant road closed further ahead > as is the case with the signs on Townley Road, > close to where we live. > > Needless to say our appeal was turned down. > > > > Rockets Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > DKHB - the temporary restriction access ahead > > signs have been added by the council recently - > I > > think because their signs were confusing people. > > > > > The signs to which Cora refers do say No > Through > > Route and state the hours and days that the No > > Through Route applies and they have been put up > on > > the roads approaching the closed roads - this > is > > why people are getting confused because they > are > > indicating that there is a closure ahead but > don't > > say where or how far away and given they a red > > signs some people are wondering whether they > apply > > from the threshold of the sign or somewhere > else. > > > > Cora, as long as you don't cross the threshold > of > > the bus gates during the hours of operation you > > will be fine. College Road is fine - just don't > > drive into Dulwich Village or Burbage at the > > roundabout during the hours of operation as > that > > is where those bus gates are located. > > > > The signs are very confusing - especially for > > anyone from outside the area who may not be > aware > > of the location of the closures.

Now what could it be that drove those emotions, the emotions that people voted on ?? Hmmm.. ???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That?s very noble of you and pie in the sky > fantasy in all democracies. You?re vastly > underestimating the role of emotion in democratic > decisions.

No one mentioned plebs apart from you, Quids. That?s your own dialogue with yourself ! Obvious my statement above is a generalisation, as there were millions of individuals involved, but in that generality I stand by what I said. There?s no elitism here and I think I?ve already clarified I?m in favour of voting for all ! And my point about undereducated isn?t to say people are thick, it?s about the perverted situation of a referendum event where people were conned and not knowledgeable enough to question critically the lies they were fed (in general). And the Tories knew it. I?m not convinced that 17million (whatever) open-minded intellectuals with all the facts at hand and a background in critical thinking assessed the details and decided to vote Brexit while simultaneously not reading the Daily Mail and ignoring FaceBook adverts. My assessment is far, far closer to the truth.

BS in action more like !

When information about the subject of a referendum is untrue, misleading, duplicitous, then it?s fraud masquerading as democracy. What galls me is the lies were allowed, unabated, no accountability. For me, Democracy is more honest / less disingenuous - the act of being able to vote is only a process, but it stands for nowt if the the air around it is poisoned.

You don?t need to paraphrase for me, I said what I think exactly in my post earlier. So read that. That is my view. I don?t need you to translate for me. If I ever think that people are wrong because they don?t agree with me, then I will say it like that, but until then - thanks for offering to paraphrase for me! TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > KidKruger Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > A > > For me personally, this whole episode has > enabled > > me to properly recognise the extent to which > our > > population is uneducated and racist, at least I > > now know who I?m dealing with and how easily > > manipulated they are and how much damage they > are > > willing to inflict on their own country (in the > > name of patriotism). > > > > KK, you contributions are normally well balanced > and measured. But this is not one of those times. > This comment is all that is wrong with this entire > debate. To paraphrase, 'someone thinks differently > to me, therefore they are either misled or an > idiot'......

Sounds like you want to persist with this elitist drivel ! I don?t think I?m better than anybody by a country mile, and I?m all for people voting ? especially when they have clear and fair information on which to base their choice. What happened was a huge amount of people fell for a list of baseless lies, probably because they wanted to as it fitted their lowest common denominator viewpoints / lies they?d lapped-up. We will pay the price now and I accept that fully. But let?s see that list of Brexit promises and against each the government can specify how they have delivered (or to what extent). It was never possible but half the voters fell for it anyway. Sometimes I actually expect Jeremy Beadle to jump out from behind a corner shouting ?ha ha, got you!?, Such is the disparity between what was promised and what is going to be delivered. Meanwhile there is very little discussion about that which makes it all the more Kafka-esque. Utterly pathetic episode which only a struggling country with big problems could achieve. ???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Amazing how bloody plebs voting annoys the great > and good of the enlightened folk

Ooh Sepiroth, I?m intrigued now, seems like I only know your non-EDF self ! Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "I?m not elitist and don?t read the guardian. " > > Having met KK a few times, I'm pretty certain he > is as far from a guardian reading, elitist as is > possible. I would argue that in age and > circumstance, KK and ???? are extremely similar > > I think the "racist" thing is overegging that > particular pudding (not to dismiss it entirely - > it's all too obviously a significant part) but the > thrust of his argument is fairly spot on > > Despite all evidence of the last 4 years and > beyond, the country still won't do anything but > drive into the wall that is Brexit. Johnson can > reel off a string of "victories" and lies and the > country (England anyway) is effectively shrugging > along. Concerns of Irish and Scottish voters count > for naught. Saying you voted for Remain or Leave > in 2016 matters little heading into 2021 - but if > you feel comfortable about the last 5 years, you > have a stronger stomach than me

Haha !! I?m not elitist and don?t read the guardian. So you?ll need to think of another angle on why I?m so misguided 🤣 We got a big problem and ain?t the EU. ???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > KidKruger Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > A definite potential positive is we now know > and > > have clear evidence of several things, which we > > could take the opportunity to address (or, > > conversely, ignore and slip further down the > > greasy pole to hell), namely: > > - stupidity of offering ?advisory? referendums > > - madness in allowing an under-educated > population > > to decide critical facets of UK international > > policy (even Richard Dawkins suggested he was > not > > qualified to vote on Brexit, so why was he > given > > the choice on something he had no hope of > > understanding at the time of the referendum) > > - dangers of allowing blatant lies in political > > campaigns > > - media manipulation of huge swathes of the > > population for political ends > > - dangers of populist leaders (also, see Trump > for > > how bad it could get) > > - the need to educate the population as to the > > actual history of the British empire and > address > > blatant racism in the UK > > - educate the population to understand and > accept > > the value foreigners bring to the UK > > - damage caused by rich elites driving > > international strategy for personal gain > > > > But I find it laughable that Brexit voters ask > > ?Remainers? for the positives in implementing > > Brexit. > > For me personally, this whole episode has > enabled > > me to properly recognise the extent to which > our > > population is uneducated and racist, at least I > > now know who I?m dealing with and how easily > > manipulated they are and how much damage they > are > > willing to inflict on their own country (in the > > name of patriotism). > > > > > > TheCat Wrote: > > ------------------------ > > forward? > > I voted remain but this patronising, elitist crap > makes me laugh. You should stop believing what you > read in The Guardian mate.

Keeping it clean and tidy perhaps shouldn?t be a condition - was the site clean and tidy before the skaters moved in ?!

A definite potential positive is we now know and have clear evidence of several things, which we could take the opportunity to address (or, conversely, ignore and slip further down the greasy pole to hell), namely: - stupidity of offering ?advisory? referendums - madness in allowing an under-educated population to decide critical facets of UK international policy (even Richard Dawkins suggested he was not qualified to vote on Brexit, so why was he given the choice on something he had no hope of understanding at the time of the referendum) - dangers of allowing blatant lies in political campaigns - media manipulation of huge swathes of the population for political ends - dangers of populist leaders (also, see Trump for how bad it could get) - the need to educate the population as to the actual history of the British empire and address blatant racism in the UK - educate the population to understand and accept the value foreigners bring to the UK - damage caused by rich elites driving international strategy for personal gain But I find it laughable that Brexit voters ask ?Remainers? for the positives in implementing Brexit. For me personally, this whole episode has enabled me to properly recognise the extent to which our population is uneducated and racist, at least I now know who I?m dealing with and how easily manipulated they are and how much damage they are willing to inflict on their own country (in the name of patriotism). TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Questio,....is there ANYTHING that the remainers > on here see as POTENTIALLY positive going forward?

Spartacus - what improvements in facilities does peckham require in your opinion (I?m assuming you mean rye lane shopping area, pls correct me if mistaken) ? Personally I like the whole Rye Lane vibe and prefer the relaxed scene there, when compared to (say) LL !!

Well said blah blah. To conclude that a less safe state is simply due to the AA population level is pretty messed-up. My own initial thought would be the conditions that minority groups are subjected to (through being ?bottom of the pile?) is a more likely cause of crime, leading to perception of apparent safety. Blah Blah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That tries to argue that division has everything > to do with ethnic origin and not socioeconomic > outcomes, or a whole range of other determining > factors, the legacy of history, slavery and so on. > Of course there are more palatable forms of > expression, protest, and pursuit of justice, but > when things are slow to change, or never change > (seemingly), an outpouring of frustration and > anger followed by a militancy is usually what > happens. > > We are now in an era where a Police Officer can > suffocate a detainee on youtube live, and instead > of addressing that, some people seek instead to > act as though black people have nothing to > complain about anymore. Belittle those who do as > marxists, supremacists, militants, when they just > want police officers to stop racially profiling > them. No-one is even talking about that anymore it > seems.

No need for forum-Gestapoism, as long as people aren?t being too derogatory let them use the phrases and sentences they choose to use ? I?m not sure you should get to choose for them malumbu ! malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A plea to most on the forum, can we refer to the > PM as that - PM, Prime Minister, Prime Minister > Johnson, Johnson. > > Not by his Christian name, that suggest affection, > or at least some sort of lovable clown. Oh Boris > would do that wouldn't he, tee hee, oh another > promise gone. > > I know it's hard but that 'lovable rogue' probably > added a few percent to his vote during the general > election and continues to mask his lack of > gravitas and integrity.

Forget 50 yards, more like a short number of miles - as that?s what is quoted as basis for many car journeys ie. short and local.

World beating, oven ready, Better deal, ?350m per week extra for nhs, ...🥱

So I guess the Labour Party should give up because they lost the election, lol. I wonder if the reasons ?Remainers? are expected to STFU is because they?re a harsh reminder of the stupidity of the whole exercise and how easily hoodwinked a huge swathe of people were. Sounds like a good reason to continue moaning, otherwise we?ll never progress as a country if we ignore things which damage us. On the other hand though, I guess I?d be feeling pretty embarrassed now too if I?d voted leave.

The Trump administration is rendered incompetent by Trump - not by the collective abilities of his cabinet. The administration wallows on eggshells for fear of upsetting the Master or through damage control of the latest shoot-from-the-hip edict by the tinsel-haired twot. The administration over there is heavily compromised by the POTUS, any view to the contrary is fantasy !

It?s only same old groove because you?re fed up with it. It seems a little autocratic to seriously (I assume you are ?) demand people stop complaining about a cause or injustice they believe in. The calendar has nothing to do with it, surely. Should climate campaigners, BLM, peace protesters all stop because one or more people are tired of them ? Anyway, I hope you are right and Brexit is a resounding success, which would also be a relief to all the people who you believe should stop complaining. Trinnydad Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sephiroth Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > just making general points - nothing > specifically > > about the deal > > Let's hope Remainers consider becoming un-stuck > from the same old groove. It's like an old cracked > 78rpm. Stuck in the same negative conversation > since 2016 propagating "economic doom and gloom" > theories based on fear. > > > It's now a new situation. The positive thinkers > will grasp the opportunities and thrive. > > "Project Fear" is dead. Get over it.

Probably a few people gonna have to settle for a nut roast then !! 🤣🤣🤣

Absolutely, Sue. Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Spartacus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Sue Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > All very well for those who are able to go to > > the > > > delivery office, but in the present > > circumstances > > > many people can't. > > > > > > And as post is a paid for delivery service, why > > should we have to go and collect it? > > > > I do hope the sorting office manager is held > > accountable for their lack of actions over this > > dismal failure to provide a service that so > many > > rely on. > > > It's very hard to know where the fault lies. The > post is bad all over the country at the moment, > and although the move to Peckham has made ours > much worse, it's hard to know how much autonomy > the delivery manager has. > > For example, was it his decision not to take on > more temporary staff, or is there some edict from > above? > > It seems to me that privatisation is at the root > of all this, as with trains etc. > > As soon as there are shareholders, profit comes > before service. In almost all cases. > > Like many things, the country got what it voted > for 😭😭😭

Isn?t there a Polish shop up next to Sainsburys Plough ?