Sephiroth

As for the bogus claim ?this isn?t what we signed up for https://fullfact.org/europe/ask-full-fact-eu-then-and-now/ (I love how people who claim they were lied to in the 70s weren?t lied to now. Now, they are super smart and in no way subject to misinformation. No sireee. Also. They are all on the same page. So never mind that leave reassured us we would NOT be leaving the single market before the referendum. Now we just have to accept. ?We knew what we voted for? Sure ya did. All 17 million. All on the same page. Sure

Single market wasn?t part of the original eec. But thatcher/uk came up with that idea And convinced the eu to go along with it What is it you leavers are afraid of? The world evolves. You want to reverse everything and pretend you can dictate your own rules.

Go on then. Tell us what you?re worried about? We remainers have told you what we worry about - you don?t seem to care. But you have some notion of what the eu has planned. So go on then

Cameron goes big with his ?I?ll show them. I?ll go in with my big treaty demands? Fail May: ?I?ll sign article 50 and show them?. Front page articles showing the slayer of the EU Fail Johnson: ?blueberry blib blib. Sign up to border in Irish Sea. Pretend there won?t be one. Snigger? Fail transition period ends. Any leverage (small as it was in comparison) is gone Predatory countries like usa, China and India. And new competitors like the EU? ?Well HERE is a country desperate for a deal. Any deal....? But of course. We aren?t there yet. We are STILL in the pretend stage. All existing agreements all still in place. No cause to alarm the citizens yet. But I?m sure that sweet sweet deal is just around the corner.

Exactly KK As I?ve said many times, if people like me are wrong, we end up with egg in our face and everyone is grand But if it?s not us who is wrong....

There is a reason, 4 years after the vote we still haven?t left left There is a reason right wing leave parties are saying they must not disband and they must keep pressure on Johnson Because anyone in power knows that going ahead with this, will destroy the country. You can take that as destroying the United Kingdom. Or you can take it as destroying England and the other nations economically m But everyone with access or knowledge knows. It?s bad. Like, BAD bad

Because leavers couldnt be accused of the opposite - denying anything is to do with Brexit All just a larf to some people innit. Just a larf No amount of evidence or people telling them how it directly affects them, no amount of news from Ireland, no amount of the 3 other uk countries withholding consent from English government last week - none of it penetrates.

It?s not just withholding. It?s the denial of the truth. Watching the chancellor this week leads me to believe he doesn?t understand. They aren?t withholding so much as completely oblivious. People say remainers are stuck in 2016. But it?s the government/leavers/daily mail etc repeating the same old ?they need us more than we need them. Car manufacturers. It will all be great? from the last 4 years despite it being demonstrably untrue. And of course come february it will be al ?see. Everything is fine? when we all know its a transition period with no deal looming against a self imposed December deadline

Northern Ireland alone and johnsons lies about it should give you a clue as to which way

Various extensions have allowed the country to continue with status quo. Business ramp up warnings and start lay offs but country remains in denial. Once transition is over then it will be in you. Glory or chaos

Can has been kicked down the road by governments. I don?t recall anyone predicting chaos after the election or triggering article 50 I stand by the chaos when Brexit happens on current trajectory. Ie end of Dec with little to no deal

Transition period. No one is expecting anything to change next week. As you known

Selling fruit from a stall isn?t exactly hard, is it? Happens across every country in the eu Do they have martyrs too? I fear petty English local authorities far more than I fear any edict from the eu

Imagine thinking a bunch of arseholes deliberately and knowingly leave off metric measurements as being somehow representative of a country under occupation Could they sell using pounds and ounces. Absolutely. How do other countries survive such oppression. I keep asking the question. But it isn?t oppression is it foxy. It When uk decides its own rules (briefly) there will still be maggots trying to make a point and buck the system and they will be prosecuted then too. Those metric martyrs aren?t oppressed. They are dickheads. That?s the story (Wrote the above based on memory of events. Rereading the article foxy posted I?m even less sure what he?s upset about. It?s more about bumbling uk authorities than it is eu as far as I can see) This was the case I was remembering https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2002/feb/18/2

English doddery old men banging on about rule from afar when the 3 other nations in the UK only this week rejected the governments WA, only to be ignored Repulsive

The ignorance on display from foxy is breathtaking None of what he says is remotely connected with reality But let?s ask the question anyway. Why would countries like Northern Ireland and Scotland vote to remain if what he says is true?

People seem to be pinning hopes on ?the trade deal? Boris has ruled out extension - so no trade deal or very bare bones But even with all the time in the world, uk won?t get a trade deal as good as it has now. It just won?t happen. It doesn?t have the leverage. And other countries won?t have it

"drop the pessimism and sign up to moving forward going forward. (or some other phrase)." incorrect - when people face up to the reality of what this entails, then we can start coming together. As long as leavers continue to live in denial there is no hope. What you call pessimism and doom mongering is reality

I don?t know most people on this thread I wish we could just go back to blaming ?cliques? Simpler times My tuppence: The thread is the thread. Points were raised. They remain of interest to enough people. Calling for the thread to be closed down is misguided. Threads die when people lose interest and move on. As it should be

I said at the time in 2017 that Corbyn and his supporters took all the wrong messages from that result - it was shortly after the referendum and many remainers were willing to believe he would fight for remain. By the time he begrudgingly came up with his "neutral" 2nd ref offer earlier this year he had aggrivated leavers and remainers alike But more than that, we had an extra 2 years to assess him - and it was not good. Basically inept on most matters, his handling of anti-semitism saw many people simply unable to vote for him Basically - he should have gone after 2017

Godammit Cat!!! malumbu - that wouldn't have worked - as Labour lost more to Labour Remain voters Than Labour Leave voters. With Corbyn in charge after 4 years, Labour were never going to get elected But the problems keep mounting for both parties - As Cat says, unless they change the way the leader is chosen then I can't see them getting out of this hole As for the Tories - they have a load of Labour Leave voters on the promise a) they get it done and b) invest in their communities. It is possible to argue that Johnson will deliver on both of those - but not at the massive expense of many traditional Conservative voters who will be aghast at the massive borrowing required to facilitate

That?s two points I agree with The Cat on in as many days. Well...

"Removed by Admin" Something is up tonight. This isn?t right. This ain?t normal

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Don?t think the Green Party have form on this. you?re so tribal that anyone who criticise the Labour Party is a Tory. ? You are still picking and choosing. I addressed all of this. Nothing tribal here. I hate Corbyn and won?t vote labour But voting green just enables one of Johnson or Corbyn more power. One of them will win. The trick is to prevent both from a majority. Voting green won?t help that (Brighton excepted)