wee quinnie

BTW Narnia, my sister had similar sounding symptoms to what your son has. Finally, after much debate....diagnosed as asthma.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not not taking medicine to suffer! I'm just > not taking it because it doesn't do any good so > why bother Well it doesn't cure what ails you, that much is true, but it does alleviate some of the symptoms, and surely that is worth something? No?

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why would you think I was talking about you wee > queenie? Bit defensive ;-) > "...vegetarians are so smug and defensive..." etc Although you refer to the public debate, I do not think it is unreasonable to suggest that your tone is rather forceful, and appears to denigrate vegetarians as a group. Maybe this was not your intention, but this is my interpretation, right or wrong. > I wasn't aware you were calling for a public > debate? > Personally I'm not. However I still don't see what's wrong with it. As far as I am aware no one is being forced to attend/take part. > As for the NHS not being overly concerned, then > why would they write an extended piece about how > to solve the challenges of vitamin and mineral > deficiency? > I think they mention that this could also be applied to most people in this country regardless of whether they are a vegetarian or not. > If you don't think that suggesting overseas cattle > and dairy farm overseas activity as a reason to be > vegetarian is moralising then you haven't come > across this definition: "comment on issues of > right and wrong, typically with an unfounded air > of superiority" Whose definition is this?

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > From a health persepctive, as any fule kno, it's a > varied diet you need. The 'V's can't get by > without, for example, vitamin B12. This is why > rabbits are also insectivores. Don't even get me > going on cholesterol or triglycerides, mineral > imblalances or the fact that vegetarian parents > are blindly damaging kids because children are > more sensitive to these imbalances, whilst parents > are more dogmatic. > Well the NHS don't seem overly concerned: http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhealth/Pages/Vegetarianhealthqanda.aspx > > Animal welfare arguments are plainly stupid. See Sean remarks. > > > > Any attempt by vegetarians to take > the moral high ground is not only false, but > vain. I must have missed the moral high ground bit. > > Any 'debate' is likely to be full of Oxfam photos > of bloated kids suffering from malnutrition, and > whilst patently immature, it has an awful lot of > cachet in a room full of pale faced teenagers. > This is pure speculation on your part. > To be honest I'm not too bothered that all the > arguments for vegetarianism are crap, but I am > bothered that vegetarians are so smug and self > centred, so conceited in their conviction, that > they they call for a 'public debate'. > You've never met me! Why would you think this of me? > Get over yerself for Crissakes. You like animals > because they're cuddly. You don't like people > killing your teddy bear. That's nice, it means > you're nice and sesitive. Well done. Vegetarians are individuals who make their choices for a variety of reasons. I disagree with some of their reasons, and I am sure many would disagree with mine. Why the generalisations? From Pasty faced 42 year old teenager Wee Quinnie.

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As Frankie Boyle said about dinner parties that he > and his wife hosted: > > "Yes of course there is a vegetarian option.. > > Eat the meat or fcuk off..." > >I liked that, but I would never be so crude as to ever repeat it ....Erm.....except on here?!

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am interested in discussions around > vegetarianism, but I know what Huguenot means > about screechy moralising - I've encountered that > in the past, and frankly I think there's a tiny > bit on this thread. Speaking as a veggie, I've got to say, that I have frequently been asked why I am a veggie, and when I give my reasons (which are briefly about factory farming and environmental sustainablity), often the questioner seems to take this as a judgement upon themselves and starts to defend why they eat meat (or whatever). I refer to this as "the conversation". I find it slightly stressful to be honest, as I don't wish to force others to do anything against their will. As far as I am concerned, what they choose to eat is none of my business. However, on this and other threads, I have noticed that people will frequently contribute in a way that seems slightly...hostile, and then say "oh, it's a joke." The ultimate way of trying to stymie a reasoned objection. Is this a no win situation?

Doesn't the fact that the company is callec Blah Blah LTD mean that they are a limited company and therefore not a charity? Or am i wrong?

Can you elaborate for those of us who aren't Goodrich parents?:)

Thanks everyone - I really appreciate your input.

Hi All I am looking at booking some flights to Aus probably around March time next year, and have been looking for deals...and have been looking at the usual comparison webby people - y'know Skyscanner Ebookers etc., but everything seems to start around the high 700 quid mark. Has anyone got any suggestions about any bargainacious websites that might be of use here? Thanks peeps.

To answer the original question, and as others have pointed out, for weed substitue...oh anything that has already been mentioned, from personal experience I'd say 1. Dull the pain; 2.Boredom. That's it.

This post and also the white text post really reminded me of all those funny posts that Azul used to do.

peterstorm1985 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > You're right. I'm not a vegetarian (as you can > probably guess), but I am a strict avoider of any > meat that's been factory farmed, and sometimes do > end up choosing the vegetarian option when I'm not > certain of the origins of the meat. Cheese does > seem to play a large part of the vegetarian option > a little too often. But it often has eggs in it > too, and then I spend a guilt ridden evening > presuming they're from battery hens...... > And of course, a lot of vegetables will be grown > using animal manure (which wouldn't exist if the > animals weren't grown for milk/meat/eggs), so if > you think too hard you'd never eat. Quite so. However, given that animal manure and animal derived rennet are by-products of the meat and dairy trade. so on balance, I still think it makes sense to avoid....

peterstorm1985 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The logic that 'vegetarians' should eat meat only > follows if they drink cows milk or eat products > made from milk. I've just never understood why it > is seen as better from a vegetarian's point of > view to avoid cheese made with calves rennet when > the milk that goes into the same cheese has been > produced at the expense of an animal's life. The > additional wastage of not using a by product from > calves seems to be more immoral. I hear what you're saying...and this is kind of what prompted the orginal post. When I'm at home, I don't consume dairy products (for the reasons you outline). However, in my experience, when I am out and about, I do end up eating the veggie option; but most cafes/restaurants appear to think that the vegetarian dish must contain cheese. I know that not all do, but this appears to be some kind of unwritten rule. Edited for reasons of having left half of the sentence out - oops!

peterstorm1985 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If a vegetarian is to be defined as someone who > doesn't eat anything that derives from the death > of an animal, then how do they eat or drink > anything that includes cows milk? Without the > slaughter of all the male calves the milk industry > wouldn't exist and because of the non-viability of > veal as a saleable meat at the scale required (and > milk production calves are not suitable to fatten > up for beef), the deaths of these calves are > directly attributable to milk production. So, as > rennet comes from calves, you might as well give > their lives some purpose. Consequently, if you are > going to eat cheese it would seem morally > responsible to eat Parmesan in its proper form. Whilst you are right to raise the issue of the slaughter of male cattle as a conseqence of dairy production....isn't the logical extension of this argument that vegetarians should eat meat?

We rented our gaff a few years ago through a letting agent, and, whilst to a large extent I think it was a bit of money for old rope. since with a little bit of preparation, you could do all of the checks yourself. However, none of my private ads met with ANY responses from prospective tenants, but I did get a few annoying calls from other agents offering to let it out for me. Doh! However, some of the services the agents offer, you can undertake to do yourself - like property imventorying (Which is really boring, I have to add). Also, you would probably be quite successful in re-negotiating their percentage. Whichever you decide - good luck.

Just rung the Council - they said that if you "go to Manor Place" they should be able to sort you out. No other information was offered. TBH it is probably less hassle for me to get it from the gardening centre.

Quite. Alternatively, get a breadmeaker, they can be obtained fairly cheaply. Mind you, I prefer the bread from EDD than the breadmaker variety. Although if I am honest, I have had the occasional slightly undercooked loaf from them. Still way way better than supermarket bread though.

I have a vague feeling they do, but could be wrong. Can't find anything on their website. Anyone know?

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >. But the > point about the book, although obviously true is > moot. There wouldn't be enough non-vegetarians who > would buy the book to make it viable. I reckon > anyway Dunno about that. Delia Smith,(who charmingly mentions in the veggie section of her Complete Cookery course "that Hitler was..guess what a vegetarian!"), brought out a veggie compilation a few years ago which was pretty successful - AND she endorses that parmesan style cheese I mentioned in my opening post.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Rosie - I basically agree with you and WQ about > what constitutes a real vegetarian > > BUT > > I doubt Jamie Oliver would be publishing a book if > it was only going to sell to real vegetarians. > s'true... Yes BUT if it's strictly vegetarian you don't have to be a vegetarian to use it. For the benefit of the wider audience you could also go on to say that people who have diets that approach vegetarianism for whatever reason will find it easier/simpler to describe themselves as vegetarians and I don't see anything wrong with that. PS If it's got a non-vegetarian cheese in it the Vegetarian society would not deem it vegetarian, and surely that's a reasonable definition of vegetarianism.

annaj Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think wee quinnie has a fair point. If you're > going to list something as vegetarian on a menu, > or write a vegetarian cook book, it's not > unreasonable for people to expect you to know what > is and isn't actually vegetarian. EXACTLY! Thank you Anna. Given that parmesan seems to pop up so frequently in this manner then leads you to question what else is actually really vegetarian?

On a related issue to my previous posting... If you think the cheese thing is nitpicking, it's really awful when you get to someone's gaff and they serve you fish or something because that's "vegetarian"! In case you're wondering, when it has happened to me, I haven't told them, and just eaten it.... Obviously stupid of me to assume that people know what vegetarian means in the simplest form. Mind you, when I lived in Australia and told people I was veggie, quite commonly, the first question asked would be "Do you eat chicken?"!!!!

Rosie, I think the problem is, a lot of people just aren't that aware of it. I was having a bit of a squizz on Jamie Oliver's site earlier on (was interested because he is bringing out a veggie cookbook), and I noted that there was a lot of confusion over the notion of parmesan - and what was meant by "vegetarian parmesan" - I guess many people out there just think cheese? wine? There's no meat in that....etc

Jah Lush Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > wee quinnie Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I have recently discovered that there is no > such > > thing as Vegetarian parmesan, yet everywhere I > > look, I find recipe books with vegetarian > recipes > > including parmesan, and restaurants/bars > serving > > "veggie options" containing parmesan. > > > > It's really bugging me - I realise of course > that > > the reasons for becoming vegetarian are varied, > > but I really would have thought most > vegetarians > > would want to avoid an ingredient that > > necessitated the death of an animal. > > > How so? It comes from milk. You don't kill a cow > or a goat come to that just to get it's milk. So > what's the problem? Unless of course you're a > vegan and don't touch dairy products but you still > wouldn't have to kill for it. Calf rennet comes from calves stomaches - so the calves need to be slaughtered to obtain it.