Revised new - M&S planning application to replace Iceland..

[James Barber]

A new planning application 12-AP-3773 has been submitted:

http://planningonline.southwark.gov.uk/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeDocs&TheSystemkey=9547620

The Iceland lease is close to ending. M&S have an option to take the site over. Clearly the freeholder would prefer a more successful shop leasing the site generating far more rent.

The freeholder have applied to extend the Iceland store and rent it to M&S - this would result in no customer parking on site - PLANNING APPLICATION DETAILS.

Building on the car parking will have a very negative affect on local residents and parking generally in the area vs. a potential anchor shop for the high street. The freeholder would obvious prefer rentable retail space than the provision of free parking.

The proposed 8 extra flats above the shop - replacing office space - would also increase parking pressures on surrounding streets.

Planning officers have suggested removing the customer car parking would reduce the numbers driving to this site - but have failed to take into account how many more people would like to shop at M&S rather than an Iceland. I suggest the latter will far out weigh the former.

If you think this is a good or bad idea tell the Southwark planning team case officer - victoria.lewis@southwark.gov.uk and copy local councillors so we can represent you as well - james.barber@southwark.gov.uk , rosie.shimell@southwark.gov.uk and jonathan.mitchell@southwark.gov.uk

[The Minkey]

Are Iceland pulling out, James?

[first mate]

This could have a huge impact on Chesterfield, Ashbourne and Melbourne Grove parking, and not in a good way. The carwash puts enough pressure on the street as it is. If this development goes ahead it'd open things up for the CPZ lobby all over again.

The other point is for a large shop like M&S where is the loading on and off lorries going to happen and what are the access points? Iceland juggernauts already cause enough of a problem; resident walls as well as cars have been badly damaged over the years.

The development looks to be huge too. If there are any architects around could they say how much higher than the existing structure the proposed development is?

Would there be parking for the proposed 8 plus residents as well as shopworkers on the existing site?

[Gidget]

Completely agree with First Mate. Have lived near an M&S before and it was a flipping nightmare. This was one with a car park as well, which was quite often getting blocked. They have huge lorries.

[????]

*pulls up chair, opens beer and sits back with popcorn*

[StraferJack]

4 pages by the end of the day?

[Penguin68]

Be careful of what you wish for - maybe all those who begged for an M&S or a Waitrose actually on the site now being proposed (Iceland) will now weigh-in in support of this (I think James was one of those - or did he just pose the question and raise the chimaera?). Just think if all the blogging here actually persuaded M&S that this would be a good place to open - blogging initiated by James.

I can't recall this plethora of doubts and concerns being mentioned before - it will be interesting (I don't plan to do it) to match those voicing concerns now with those who voiced concerns in the endless thread before, and to see whether the fact of it has dampened any enthusiasms. A car park on the cleared Hospital site looks a better bet now - might even be a money earner from M&S aficionados drawn in from around SE London.

[Ukjoncollins]

Whilst I'm no fan of Iceland, replacing it with an m & s is a terrible proposition. The Iceland lorries cutting through Melbourne grove is bad enough as it is with out increasing the amount of produce that needs to get in and out of the unit. On top of this the additional competition to that end of the market is going to have a negative effect on local businesses within the area and in essence the local shops which for east is it's heart are going to start to struggle as they can't compete with m & s prices. Very sad news indeed.

Jon

[Gidget]

No doubt, Southwark will use this as another reason to get a CPZ. Pressure on parking in nearby streets.......do you think people will want to park in a car park on hospital grounds and then walk?

[showboat]

This thread should make for good viewing :-)!

[aicardo]

RESULT!

Parking aside this is a massive asset to Lordship Lane and works well with existing retailers. M&S majors on convienience food, so will only really affect Co-Op and nearby Sainsbury's Local and Tesco Metro, not affecting Moxons and the like.

Not only that but it will potentially boost footfall. This is very good news.

BTW, assuming this is a Simply Food, the average basket size will be no more than a Co-Op shop so I wonder how much more parking will be required. Deliveries will be no more disruptive than the Co-Op,who often do there's late at night to avoid traffic and congestion.

[Gidget]

Why is the consultation period only a month, and why are there no notices required?

[Gidget]

Went into an M&S on the Fulham Road the other day and thought the prices are very high. Walked out without buying anything. Blueberries - ?4 a punnet?

[OD]

Having M&S replacing Iceland sounds like a good idea, but it can be done within the existing building as a 'Simply Foods'. If I lived in the surrounding streets I would be very very concerned about the parking situation.

[Jeremy]

For me the positives outweigh the negatives.

I don't see why it should have a huge impact on our local businesses - M&S offer something different, and specialise in convenience food. There will of course be a small impact, but generally I can't see customers bypassing William Rose/Moxons/Pretty Traditional/Cheese Block in favour of M&S.

If you want to park somewhere, drive 5 mins down the road to the large Sainsburys instead. Yes it may cause more traffic and parking issues, but that's the price you pay for living in an area with good shops.

The building (including the office space above) is pretty ugly at the moment, hopefully the work will leave us with a more attractive high street.

[Vik]

I agree with Jeremy. Although I do think the impact on parking made by the 8 new flats will need addressing.

If Iceland already have huge lorrys delivering, what difference does it make what it says on the side of the lorry?

I'd welcome an M&S on Lordship Lane.

[gedwina]

Will the number of lorries really be that different with an M and S? The reduction in parking spaces seems minimal but I think that the main point should be a change in business from a low cost mass market retailer to an aspirational more top end shop. What affect will this have on the population of east dulwich who can?t afford to pay the m&s prices?

[Damian H]

aicardo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> RESULT!

>

> Parking aside this is a massive asset to Lordship

> Lane and works well with existing retailers. M&S

> majors on convienience food, so will only really

> affect Co-Op and nearby Sainsbury's Local and

> Tesco Metro, not affecting Moxons and the like.

>

> Not only that but it will potentially boost

> footfall. This is very good news.

>

> BTW, assuming this is a Simply Food, the average

> basket size will be no more than a Co-Op shop so I

> wonder how much more parking will be required.

> Deliveries will be no more disruptive than the

> Co-Op,who often do there's late at night to avoid

> traffic and congestion.

Well said. There are those who focus on how M&S will cannibalise local business but I agree it could be a magnet to bring more customers to the area hence benefitting local retailers.

[Vik]

There's an Iceland just down the road in Peckham, I shop in Iceland when money's particularly tight but would just pop to Peckham if the LL branch went.

[Gidget]

gedwina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Will the number of lorries really be that

> different with an M and S? The reduction in

> parking spaces seems minimal but I think that the

> main point should be a change in business from a

> low cost mass market retailer to an aspirational

> more top end shop. What affect will this have on

> the population of east dulwich who can?t afford to

> pay the m&s prices?

There won't be a car park if there is an M&S, so lorries will block the road and wake up residents if at night or early in the morning. It;s like trying to shoehorn a size 10 foot into a size 5.

[first mate]

The increase in footfall is all well and good, but people will want to park, as will the 8 plus families that will live in the proposed new residential development- that is a massive increase in traffic and then, yes, frequent deliveries by huge lorries too.

If you read the planning appilication the developers are under the delusion that people will all cycle!!!

The garden centre is another big development waiting to happen. Perhaps this is why there were such huge efforts to push CPZ through.

It doesn't seem like this has been thought through at all.

[*Bob*]

But these won't just be lorries - these will be M&S lorries.

[The Minkey]

Although there is an Iceland on Rye Lane, the queues in there are horrible so I use the LL one for bargain essentials - it's one of the reasons I come to LL. I don't buy ready meals and a lot of the other foodstuffs M&S do are so overpriced, especially in their Simply Foods outlets, I wouldn't use them for my groceries. Iceland continues to get my vote, if I should happen to have a hankering for M&S offerings, I'll shop for them in Brixton where they'll be cheaper.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I suspect that overall M&S will prove more popular than Iceland, though clearly not everyone will be happy to lose the latter.

There is always going to be pressure on parking and the more popular the shop the greater the traffic. Not sure it's a good reason to stop popular shops coming to LL.

[jonny vantastic]

I hope they put a cafe in. Prams. That's all I'm saying