Caffe Nero planning application review (Update - refused)

[Quaywe]

The planning application Caffe Nero submitted ages ago re: change of use of its premises to A2/A3 from A1 is being reviewed tonight at the DCC planning meeting.

If you live within a short distance of the cafe (100m) and don't want it there tonight is your chance to go along and have your say.

It's on at 7pm at Dulwich Library.

[karter]

cool, did not know.

Does anyone know the latest about the old building behind caffe' nero??

[euphorbia]

CAF? NERO BANNED !!!

In a spectacular development at the Dulwich Community Council this evening CAF? NERO?s application to change its designation from A1 (retail) to A1/A3 (retail - restaurant/cafe hybrid) was rejected, on the fairly complex grounds that it is really a restaurant/cafe and as such causes the balance of retail outlets vs all other types of shop front along lordship lane to fall beneath a 50% limit.

They can appeal but until they do it appears that the council can now turn up and force them to stop selling food and drinks to sit in customers.

There was 1 objector who spoke, who is being woken up every 30 minutes through out the night by extractors they have installed 2 ft underneath his bedroom window (also without planning permission). Caf? Nero obviously not good sorts, as long suspected by general Forum sentiment.

[Quaywe]

UNBELIEVABLE!!! The little guy has finally won one for the masses. Well done to the anon who decided to show up and stick up for themselves and LL!

Thanks to euphorbia for posting the update too.

:)-D

[Quaywe]

Thanks must also go to our councillor Richard Thomas who went in to bat for the locals tonight and obviously had an impact.

Cllr Richard Thomas

[Mark]

Congratulations Quaywe, I know that you and Angela (SE22 magazine) and others had fought hard for a result against Caffe Nero. What are they to do next then? Change into a takeaway only?

[mockney piers]

Wow, big news! Just goes to show the dangers of trying to present a fait accompli. Go the little man!!

[OutOfFocus]

Does that mean they have been trading illegally and will have to stop. I dont understand the jargon of this sort of stuff.

[Keef]

I've never been in to Caffe Nero, and don't intend to as I hate coffee. However, I really don't understand this hatred of the big chain stores. Don't bite my head off here, I'm just asking for an explanation of it. I'm very much up for local businesses, but I have no problem with large shops either. You should look at Sydenham High Street, there are loads and loads of local businesses, and they're grotty little pound shops for the most part. I think the residents of SE26 would roll out the red carpet for some nice chain stores! ;-)

[fractionater]

Nero do a very nice Chai Latte... much better than Starbucks version... Would hate to lose that!

[blinder999]

I agree with with Keef on this one - I wouldn't buy their coffee either, but at least they've got a nice clean shopfront - it would be nice if certain local businesses on LL took a little pride in the appearance of their shops - Chener books for example?

[Ant]

Knowing the book business, I'd guess they'd probably love to tart up the shop front but can't afford it.

[blinder999]

Repainting the sign once every thirty years wouldn't cost the earth.

http://static.flickr.com/35/65079163_40c027b048_m.jpg

[mockney piers]

As I've stated before I actually have nothing against Caffe Nero per se, at least it's british rather than another american import, but I do object to those that use a bit of financial clout to bully their way into getting their own way. From what I can tell the likes of Tescos do it to the farming industry, property developers are forever knocking down Grade 3 listed buildings and factoring in the fines as costs, and here we have a pretty big business breaking the rules on apparently at least two counts, and thinking it can get away with it, so I was enjoying the slapdown (that's a made-up technical term btw).

[capt_birdseye]

You may have won the battle but the war will rage on. Despite not gaining the required planning permission, Nero have proved to themselves (and other coffee chains) that they can have a perfectly viable business operating on Lordship Lane - build it and they will come. All they really need to do is buy-out an existing cafe/restaurant and they'll be back in business. Having to close the existing property will cost them in the short term, but to a big company like that it's small fry. What's to stop them making big offers to the people who run Dulwich Cafe/El Paso etc?

Mark my words, even if they lose their appeal, they'll be back.

[Michael Palaeologus]

I sit on the fece here. The issue with the corporates is that they can act in an anti-competative way - under-cutting pricing to an extent that they force out the local indies, use their big marketing budgets to drown out the locals and sometimes force suppliers to cease supplying the local competition. There are then the bigger trading isues of the extent to which they force the suppliers of raw materials to drop their prices to subsistance levels.

Clearly, we dont know what Caffe Nero are like in these areas. Undertaking a development without planning permission, especially one that creates a noise nuisance is bad though.

Having said all of that Iwould not object to Caffe Nero or Starbucks or whoever purely on the basis of them being who they are. Local shops and suppliers are potentially just as capable of exploiting their customers, if they have a monopoly.

What we need is a strong but flexible planning committee that is influenced by common sense, not by politico-economic dogma.

[blinder999]

British... but they claim it's Italian. They really are a deceitful bunch.

http://hilton.org.uk/facade/cambridge-caffe-nero.jpg

[mockney piers]

Deliberately ambiguous I guess. They'll probably claim the coffee is Italian because the machines and style and up here in sunny Camden (it almost looks pleasant by god) the staff are Italian.

Hence [italian coffee] [co], rather than [italian] [coffee co]

But yes, a bit naughty

[Michael Palaeologus]

I dont think that they can be condemned for a bit of marketing puff!

They serve expresso and latte and all that other Italian stuff.

[dulwichmum]

I really like coffee, and shame of shames - Starbucks especially. I would prefer a starbucks than an independent pound shop any day of the week. But, I do completely get the arguement against large companies forcing food producers into poverty with unfair pay and conditions.

You should take note of the dreadful front on Tesco on Croxted Road, lite up from morning till night, it really takes the look off that small group of shops. Somerfield on Lordship Lane at least looks less offensive than all that illuminous white and blue.

Fair play to Keef for putting forward his point of view, sometimes it can be frightening to express any opinion against the tide here. Chener Books really should clean up its act. I have lived around here for nearly twenty years, and I have never noticed them decorate their shop front.

[fractionater]

So what are the implications of this planning application refusal for this Nero?

[capt_birdseye]

I think people are put off Chener books by the sign, Mrs Birdseye refuses to go in there! When I moved to the area I assumed it was a second-hand bookshop, upon venturing inside I was pleasantly surprised about how nice it was, and well-stocked. Must be hard for them to make much money though, what with competing against Amazon and the like + Waterstones' 3 for 2 deals.

Anyway, wandering off-topic.

RIP-DOWN NERO NOW! BOOOOOOOOO!

[DirtyBox]

At the risk of being flamed on my second post, what's so terribly wrong with Caffe Nero? Someone must like it otherwise it would have closed up already.

[mockney piers]

Yes, I thought it was one of those antiquarian god-bothery type stores for a while and was positively afraid of it until I followed a friend in and saw how nice it was, though a lick of paint would do it the world of good, can't cost that much surely. It's particularly good as you get books there that are bit off the beaten track figuratively speaking.

This one was a real fave, PM me if you want borrowage.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Groundwater-Diaries-Tributaries-Stories-Beneath/dp/000713083X/ref=sr_1_2/026-7385835-5822840?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1172834989&sr=1-2

[Peckham native]

In answer to fractionater what will happen now is Caffe Nero will probably appeal. If the decision made last night by the Council is in anyway shown to be unsound Caffe Nero will win and there will be a high cost to the Council (council tax payers). If Caffe Nero lose they will not be able to operate on that site as a cafe/restaurant and no other business will be able to use that premises or any other retail space in Lordship Lane as a cafe/restaurant. If Caffe Nero wanted to stay in Lordship Lane they would have to buy out an existing restaurant.

By the way Southwark have recently lost appeals possibly by being swayed by local pressure groups and not making sound planning judgements. Some councillors very scared of any critisism from the residents.