Gross women

[DJKillaQueen]

Your link Louisa is not a scientific article...and it's published by the health food emporium of all things which is hardly an independent scientific body.

Here's a counter study from an independent body that argues the opposite....

http://www.dweckdata.com/Research_files/SLS_compendium.pdf

(And don't worry about over-stepping marks Louisa - it's just debate and it's all good)

I have more time for TE44's reference point, but as the article says...

Industry argues that years of phthalate use without visible harm prove product safety. Critics counter that animal studies establish plausible risk but that the relevant human epidemiological studies focused specifically on the impacts of fetal exposure simply haven't been done.

Are the results in animal testing strong enough to suggest a need for human epidemiological studies? I am not conviced they are but am prepared to have an open mind on that one until more research is done.

[civilservant]

what are you suggesting, louisa - that someone doing their eyes on a bus is a public health danger? Someone please enlighten me, I don't want to wade through 8 pages of posts.

At that rate, walking into John Lewis would be the equivalent of wandering into a leprosarium - you know the bit at the front where the scary women in immaculate foundation tempt you with their lotions and potions, all no doubt well saturated with phthalates and other goodies.

(Note re animal testing - there is now a complete ban on the sale of animal-tested cosmetics across the EU since last month)

[Louisa]

DJKQ - I think more research needs to be done following the animal studies. If a human study is carried out, at least then any potential dangers could be unearthed and discussed by national government and down to the lower tiers within council chambers across the country. A bus, train/tube carriage is a restricted space and fresh air isn't always in abundance. Especially during hot spells. My view is that until a study is carried out, the possible or potential risk is large enough for signs to be put up to at the very east encourage people not to spend time doing potentially health damaging things. The point is you can't say, well smoking and drinking alcohol are banned, but it's ok to eat peanuts or talk on a phone.

civilservant - my argument is that application of cosmetics in a shared public space is morally wrong, and has the potential to cause health risks to others. DJKQ argues that the evidence relating to the health issues isn't powerful enough. I argue that that is irrelevant because the same was said abut smoking not too many years ago.

Louisa.

[TE44]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Cosmetic_Ingredient_Review

A link to the independant group from your post

I did not read all of your other link by dana joel gattuso

as i recognised Company she worked for from Exxonsecret website,

Sorry cannot put it up. I feel s

there has been conflict of interest with her research owing

to funders. Maybe not in this particular piece but even so its put me off.

[Huguenot]

I think if you've got to the point where you're seeking out obscure evidence from niche conspiracy theorists and junk nutritionists to justify extraordinary public health claims for which there is no substantive evidence, then you have to ask why that is?

The point at which your fears and anxieties build up to an irrational and disproportinate set of beliefs is when you've got to ask yourself if you've become paranoid?

[LadyDeliah]

All of this stuff has got me really worried.

Police waste their time looking for knives and guns, but any psycho with mass murder on their mind will be able to slip through the most hi tech net and do murder by moisturiser.

We need a petition about it.

[????]

:)

[*Bob*]

Has anyine seen 'Avon Calling' (cert. 18)?

I'll never look at a pot of rouge in the same way again.. Shudder..

[indiepanda]

I can't believe some people are getting so hot under the collar about women putting their make up on whilst on the bus. If I don't want to watch, I can stick my nose in my book. It's hardly up there with eating smelly food or shouting down your mobile - and even those I can ignore for the most part. Life is too short to waste getting irate about such trivia. Frankly I'm impressed they do such a good job of it - I have difficulty enough not messing up my mascara applying it whilst still.

Truth be told a lot of the time I go out without make up at all - and with wet hair. If anyone wants to waste their energy judging me for that they are welcome to - but don't expect me to care what you think. I make an effort when I need or want to, but sometimes I'd rather have more sleep!

[LadyDeliah]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Has anyine seen 'Avon Calling' (cert. 18)?

>

> I'll never look at a pot of rouge in the same way

> again.. Shudder..

No, but it sounds like the stuff of nightmares.

[TE44]

Huguenot Science itself disagrees with many issues the fact people choose what they read

and comes to there own opinion does not make them paranoid. And as shocking or obscure as this may seem to you,

many people would not consider buying product for thereselves or children without checking the ingredients, where do

you suppose they came to that idea.Or would this also be considered in your opinion irrational and disappropriatr.

Dg asked for a link and I gave one.

Lady d greenpeace have and continue to fight this case. And further regulatios will be looked at by the end of this

year. Sorry can't put up link at mo.we all have different things which cause us concern, what others may see as paranoia does not make it real.

['bout now]

Warning. Don't go outside, there's other people and stuff.

[Huguenot]

I can see that TE44.

It becomes paranoid when it's irrational.

As someone already pointed out - everything you touch, smell, taste is poisonous. It's a matter of quantity. For example, drinking too little water will dehydrate you and kill you, drinking too much water will change your electrolyte balance and kill you...

So you will always be able to find online quotes 'proving' the dangers of anything. If you can't find that proof, then you can always claim it's a cover up or everybody is lying.

But that way insanity lies.

There are certainly examples in the past where materials have been found to be toxic - this is an example of how our efficient and capable our scientific community is. There will be examples in the future too.

It is simply NOT possible to prove anything is safe - we can only prove that they are unsafe.

Knowing all that, it is irrational to jump to conclusions based on the ramblings of cowboys and conspiracy theorists about what is or isn't good for you.

If, like Louisa, that leads you to call for the banning of leather and rubber on public transport when there is zero evidence of a health threat then you're not a modern day messiah, you are simply crazy.

That's what paranoid is.

[TE44]

It has not been my findings in life, many dangers have been banned through public

and some may say conspiracy theorists groups, and scientists not giving up the fight, often where companies,

Companies put profits before people.

No I would not like to see the above banned, people should have a choice and of course you have to prioritise

on an individual level what worries you most. The fact you mistrust

the powers who decide whats best for you, by your reasoning that would make

a large part of the population insane.

I do believe there is an name in psychiatric terms for people who believe

everyone else is mad if there opinions differ so much from there own.

I'm sure you know that one, you being the expert on madness, if not you've always got google.

[Cassius]

Remember the words of Kurt 'Just because I'm paranoid don't mean they're not after me'

[edcam]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Couch potato? Not my style. There's a dilapidated

> red telephone box at the bottom of Upland Road

> with two panes of glass fallen out and a faint

> whiff of stale urine.

>

> Assuming the wife's washed my camo utility

> trousers and I can find my Argos headtorch - it's

> game on.

Bob - was that you and Vicanna I saw in a skip by Goose Green this morning with the Mission Impossible theme tune playing

from an old cassette recorder?

[computedshorty]

On the Bus.

Stories read here of Gross women bring strange visions into my mind,

the opportunity came for me today by using the bus, so what shall I find?

I found a window seat before this woman got on, who took the isle seat,

asked me if I would change, juggling with my Zimmer now is complete.

My accompanying traveller used almost both of the seats as she was fat,

this made no room me other than to balance my Zimmer up on my lap.

She cursed and said your Zimmer made this ladder have look at my tights,

I glanced down at the bulbous calf, not a vision to add into my delights.

She wriggled and squirmed, then lifted her bottom up clear of the seat,

just a glimpse of peach bloomers, accomplished her tights removal fete.

From her handbag took a container with pink Blusher to my surprise

starting at her feet she applied it up her legs to her calves to her thighs.

Her open toe shoes now replaced on her feet, protruded a blackened nail,

looking closer it was something that had dropped from below a dogs tail.

The applied nail polish brush soon painted it, that changed it to red,

both big toes now looked reasonable, so it leaves no more to be said.

Out comes the comb, I duck from the elbows as she straightens her hair,

a tug at a suspect knot, down drops a curler she forget was left there.

My own head now itches with the spreaded old dead hair and fluff ,

I never imagined I would ever have my bald head covered in Dandruff.

I arrived at my Bus stop I rose travelling now my journey complete,

she having room kicked those discarded tights under the front seat.

As I made my way along slowly to the Hospital for my appointment,

I wonder will many others have to put up with this forced enjoyment.

[uncleglen]

A woman on the train from ED to London Bridge standing up by the door (back to the doors) had a face mirror out the whole journey and was looking in it and smoothing her face , eyes etc with her forefinger. Not a single article of make-up to be seen. Performing facial massage perhaps?

[LadyDeliah]

Just a thought but Lousia if your so against the anti-social spreading of noxious substances, I suggest you get rid of your car and walk or cycle instead.

[WorkingMummy]

Dulwich2020, or even Admin,

Any chance you could change the title of this thread?

The content of the OP was entirely unobjectionable as an expression of irritation, and nothing like as extreme as some of the views since expressed by, well, mainly by Louisa. But even Louisa has, at one point, distanced herself from the title. It's insulting.

The thread is proving very popular and has been at or near the top of the board for a few days now. It is rather a slap in the face whenever you enter the lounge: "Gross women".

[UncleBen]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Isn't this discussion really about taboos?

>

> The threat of deadly makeup and homicidal leather

> jackets may well be technically 'true' but the

> risk is so vanishingly small that there has never

> been a documented case to support these ornate

> theories.

>

> It's certainly not big enough to justify the

> visceral overreaction of some individuals to such

> 'gross' women.

>

> So isn't this protest really about 'gross' women

> upsetting the natural order and threatening the

> very fabric of society?

>

> The fact that the protestors on this thread

> regularly find themselves on other threads voicing

> traditionalist, conservative, reactionary opinions

> would seem to support this?

>

> The challenge with public makeup is that it

> reveals the design and application behind a

> woman's outward appearance. It's a statement of

> independence - a rejection of the idea that women

> are somehow naturally demure, feminine and

> retiring 'pretty little things' in favour of more

> complex motivations and machinations.

>

> So these protestations are perhaps the last gasp

> of Victorian traditionalists resentful of female

> equality?

>

> For 'gross women putting on makeup in public'

> instead read 'women should know their place'.

Great stuff! The complex motivations and machinations of these independent women that refuse to be thought of and objectified as 'pretty little things' and routinely demonstrate all of the above huge complexities by the act of applying make up on public transport/in public every morning. Hmm these amazing independent women may just be painting their faces every morning on the way to work so they look exactly like perfect little pretty things in the work place, and so conform to media and male views on how women should look! Thats ironic isn't it! No, it's just bad manners, and sloppiness of character no more and no less.

[LondonMix]

God, you don?t read a thread for a couple of days and its turned totally insane. Comparing the application of standard makeup with smoking? Does Louisa or anyone else genuinely know of anyone that has been made sick by someone else applying make-up? Most make up I?ve seen applied on the bus doesn?t fly around (compact, mascara, lipstick, eyeliner, potted rouge). How is applying these types of cosmetics more immoral than simply wearing cosmetics around other people in general?

TE44, I agree that governments are not always honest and that companies actively try to manipulate the public. However, for issues that concern public heath, governments have usually been the leading force against company vested interests (if not for moral reasons, simply because of the health care costs). Governments around the world regularly ban and recall a host of substances. Without the government and scientific community?s efforts regarding Big Tabacco, smoking would continue to be a much more significant health problem.

[Voyageur]

UncleBen Wrote:

Thats ironic isn't it! No, it's just

> bad manners, and sloppiness of character no more

> and no less.

Actually it isn't. No more than doing a crossword, knitting or sipping a cup of tea on a train/bus. I am afraid that you will find that you are in the minority here - insisting that a woman applying make-up should be behind closed doors and away from your judging eyes.

I take 3 hour train journeys 4 times a month - I moisturise my hands, apply a bit-of eye-shadow as I am often en-route to a night out, eat and drink [non-smelly food], carry out a bit of sewing etc. None of it affects you so kindly stop staring and MYOB. Thanks :)

[Huguenot]

"It's just bad manners and sloppiness of character"

Hee hee - there you go with that patriarchal public school Latin teacher approach.

Why should they have to fulfil your requirements to your timetable in order to present themselves to you for appraisal?

Is this what you really resent? That they are somehow disrespecting you by failing to prepare to your exacting standards?

Have you lost your authority? Does it infuriate you? ;-)

Why should the efficient use of otherwise dead time to perform ritual tasks not fill you with anything but admiration?

[numbers]

Classic Edf gold. Well done all esp Louisa.