Maurice

Now that would be interesting. I'd much rather have East Dull-ites coming in than rift raft passing from our way over. Alan, you've sorted the problem. The street is to remain open, but travelled by only the better classes.

Bob you clearly haven't understood me, poor soul. Not only did I 'think we'd lose', I believe we should've 'lost'. I think my position on that has been clear. I only bemoaned the fact that we couldn't win (I was sure we wouldn't and for that matter, shouldn't). Now we can look forward to severe back-ups along the road. I may try and offer a window washing service for donations.

Indeed recb, you are correct. Bob hasn't read my previous posts, which clearly show I saw the writing on the road. There was no need to fight it.

Alas one did not attend, as I knew the outcome already (predicted in this very thread). It's a no-brainer, but you can't blame us for trying.

Chav while I don't actually disagree with many of your points here, I think my ongoing issues of fundamentally not agreeing with your slant to offer a blanket pardon to 'poor souls' who shouldn't face the consequences of their decisions because of the 'evil (mostly white), western, male dominated world' who brazenly bulldoze them at every corner. Sometimes we have to take individual responsibility for our behaviour/choices and the consequences. Blaming others may even be valid, but it shouldn't be our default.

Go Grove!

The words 'respect' and 'responsible' shine through here. I think it no more helpful for an angry 'moral' mob to chastise women who choose to abort than a so-called 'feminist' suggesting it's just another means of birth control akin to popping a pill. I also think we all are entitled to a view on this issue. The liberation of women movement was not about giving exclusivity to women on abortion issues. It was/is about taking away exclusivity from men on the issue. How we deal with our newborns and nearly deads are the mark of a civilised society.

As I've said on this thread before, there is a very good case (on paper) for them doing this. Emotional responses about change were bound to be confronted with logical rationale. Network Rail didn't just decide to do this because they hate Denmark Hill. There is a sound business case. The 'fight' to stop it, needs to be fought against this with equally sound counter arguments, which will be very difficult to articulate. Hospital services are the best.

Don't minimise what many women go through in making the decision to abort. And impoverished countries are not a fair comparison, though the rhetoric from you is predictable. It's like a cut and paste with you when it comes to enlightened liberal thinking. Oh for more truly deep thinking, unique liberals. I blame the internet.

A dig indeed. You threw this grenade this morning hoping to get a fight. Most people agreed with the basic premise but that wasn't enough for you. I'm sure women everywhere feel empowered by your post. 'Ah ain't nothin' abortin' a baby. Did it twice myself and was back down the pub by night time. Easy. Everybody should try it.' Ghastly.

I think you just offered us the case study we needed on so many levels.

Ah that ol' chestnut. While I support a woman's right to choose and listen extra carefully to their views, I do believe males have the right to voice an opinion, which should be given some weight.

Agreed. If viable outside of the mother's womb, it should not be aborted. Those who think otherwise undermine their anti death penalty argument.

I think we can all agree on the absolute disgrace of teenage pregnancy - Southwark is horrific. Surely we can do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies before they occur. Further, and I know for fact this is not an urban myth, teens that want a baby accessory complete with their own council flat really anger me. I don't know the solution, but it really angers me.

Believe it or not I am pro-choice but having guided a few precious souls through the process, I can tell you it isn't a joyous occasion. Quite the contrary. I believe a woman should be offered a full picture of what is involved - it isn't the same as having a tooth pulled and life returns to normal the following morning. I wish abortion was never necessary in the first place. It can really destroy a young woman on so many levels. That said, I remain resolutely pro-choice. It is the same for the death penalty. There is no logic in killing to punish people for killing. That said, there are some horrible crimes where if I were in the shoes of victims left behind, I would want revenge and the death penalty might seem appropriate. In those cases, I do not support killing the individual responsible - but I am not sympathetic to providing them with anything more than a lifetime of pure misery.

The Tram is proposed to head through North Peckham Estate and areas South/North of Burgess Park. Southwark long ago identified this area as the most deprived transport area in the whole Borough - and in deprived in terms of economic demos. Add to it Peckham. Nunhead does have more than one bus as transport option, no? Some of these areas have only one bus, and anything else is far more than 8 minutes away. Again, it won't impact me but I've read about it with great interest. I'd love to see Trams return. But that's by the by. Your argument suggests that Nunhead is far more economically and transport deprived than the areas with one bus. If you are right, then I'll support your neighbourhood with its trains and multiple buses should get a tube before the area in question should get anything more than their one bus.

That does explain a lot Frisco. Might I suggest yoga?

Lozzy I'm just trying to get the hang of the aiming device. Frisco do come round for sherry. We can apply Oxford debating rules and Chav can be off limits, which will require a lot of restraint.

Er the Tram won't go anywhere near East Dulwich. It will go through the most severely deprived areas of Southwark. Areas far more in need of regeneration than Nunhead. I could care less about the Tram. But on its face value, it is the right thing to move forward.

I do feel for the Peckham lot. They have a website driven by one woman's ego and she doesn't allow dissent. She comes here in hopes of driving traffic but doesn't allow any debate. Besides, there are very few in Peckham who care enough to get involved. It's the same small lot. Give 'em a little 'Lounge' time. Camberwell is similar. A bit more chatter but no action. ED has engaged residents.

What are the best local displays to take in during this most important holiday season (and I don't mean this silly Halloween)? Aside from some professional displays of note (Clapham, Blackheath), why is it that Council Estates seem to have about 50 times more fireworks per child than anywhere else? Is this a waste of money on behalf of those with little to spend or something else I can blame on Lidl and their ilk?

I turn out all the lights but have installed a tannoy system just in case anyone still fancies their chances. I find a diabtribe over the loud speaker of how much I've paid toward their benefits generally forces them off the premises. Chav, please don't try again this year. Your bike-and-trailer combo won't bode well on my cobbles.

Yes my patronising clap trap is over. BARA (rightly) won and this issue is closed.

So far I've been advised attack dogs and AK47's. I shall start Googling...

No I think perhaps we need Riot Police to do the job properly.