Spartacus

There is a factor that the argument for road closure fails to take into effect for businesses. I mentally call it the blues brother shopping mall effect. In the original film they drove through a shopping mall calling out the businesses in it. Whilst it's not a shopping mall, cars traversing through a shopping street can result in driver / passenger spotting a business that they didn't know existed there, thus encouraging them to stop or return another day. This also has the opposite effect of when cars don't pass the business it becomes out of sight, out of mind ! Don't get me wrong as pedestrians and cyclists will have a similar effect however more often than not car drivers that experience the phenomenon will be from just outside of the area thus adding to the trade a business will normal get. (Cyclist and pedestrians are normally more local) Equally if an area is harder to get to or park in, trade will naturally migrate to places that are easier for drivers, it's the unintentional side effect out of town shopping centres, retail parks and large supermarkets had on business in town centres from the 80s onwards. So before people say "but the road is accessible from one end", think about what knock on effect it has on businesses located on it from passing trade and how it encourages people to shop elsewhere. As I said before, these closures need a proper consultation and pre implementation study followed by a full post implementation study rather than the council rushing them in under the guise of "the moneys there now but we will lose it if we don't spend it" then spending more money when they have to, like Wandsworth , do a u-turn !

Rockets : I don't think it's because Wandsworth is slightly majority Tory They had pressure from their voters and as tfl are making other changes they decide to retreat and review

JonnoJ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you care about the future of the planet, > support these street restrictions. > Think wider picture. Traffic is a catastrophe for > the planet and reduces all our life spans due to > pollution. What about the ULEZ and Electric / hydrogen vehicles that we will all be moving too ? Won't they have a bigger impact and as a result the argument that road closures are about pollution will "evaporate" as vehicles become cleaner Will roads then be reopened as the environment argument is moot then ? Sadly a lot of people feel that this is a direct attack on cars and not an environmental initiative due to the reasons mentioned above. Remember, for the last 60 plus years we've been sold the dream of car ownership* it's not something people want to give up without a fight * car ownership benefitted the government in the form of taxes so they are all partially responsible for selling us the dream !

Wil72 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Has anyone set up a petition yet? I can see that > residents in Wandsworth have done one for the same > reason on Change.org On tonight's London news they reported that there are demonstrations in various London boroughs today and that yesterday Wandsworth did a U turn on the LTNs and is now removing barriers. Hopefully the Souhwark based petition will have the same effect and the council will do a proper consultation exercise that listens to what people actually want and not a few vocal locals ! Edited to add link to story https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/news/september-2020/low-traffic-neighbourhood-trials-suspended/

womanofdulwich Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well > . What a question. > You might ask why eat out to help out applied to > establishments serving chips... Indeed but chips on the side are different from a whole menu that falls into the junk food category I could also ask why mcd was also in the eat out scheme ? Just strikes me as very Contrary !

One of the critical factors to surviving Covid, if you end up in hospital, is not being obese. To this end there is a drive to get Britain fitter and remove junk food adverts from prime time for children. All great steps in the right direction should a second wave hit, as it is looking like now. But can anyone understand why the golden arches are now advertising new menu items like the "double quarterpounder with cheese" ? (double the fat and calorie contents I suspect) Surely that flies in the face of the campaign to reduce obesity!

Are e-scooters legal yet ?

No You're wrong exdulwicher Regardless of the topic 😂

ianr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Everyone apart from Hancock wanted to set the > limit on groups at eight or more," the source > said. > https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/rule-of-s > ix-opposed-ministers-cabinet-a4545036.html (same > as above) So the health minister wants one target and MPs driven by keeping the country and businesses financial viable and their voters whining wanted a higher number 🤔 I'd go with the health minister every time as he's probably got the best information from his department and knows what's coming if we don't go with the lower number. It's easier to increase the group size as infections come down, but if you start higher and repeatedly adjust downwards then there will be multiple whinges of "yet another u turn" Lol it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other or damned if they do and damned if they don't here.

What about expanding BARA to act as a voice for Local residents and businesses in East Dulwich ?

wordsworth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Joy of Six Is that illustrated by six blokes with beards in various positions ? Drinking in the pub Gathering in the park Underwater ...

stecoward101 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I am not sure how you equate 8% as pretty > convincing support. I would consider 92% not > signing it as more convincing. > I believe the CPZ was introduced by less people supporting it so to knock a thousand signature petition is like blowing raspberries in people's faces Still I look forward to your counter petition to see how many actually support the changes made by the council. If you think it will be 92% then put your money where your mouth is and start a supporting one.

I am number 6 ! Oh sorry I am Spartacus 😆 In pubs maximum group sizes are 6 people, and with social distancing you can see multiple unrelated / un-associated groups sharing the sane space so in theory as long as people don't abuse the system and ruin it for everyone else, pubs and restaurants should be fine. But if you are concerned don't go and leave your space for others !

dougiefreeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I just submitted a petition to the southwark > council website - will post here once approved Has this petition been approved or have southwark buried it (in a planter) ?

It strikes me that the more voices and support that the petition https://www.change.org/p/helen-hayes-help-us-to-stop-the-road-closures-in-east-dulwich gets, the more vocal the anti car brigade are on here Is it that they are seeing the tide turning in the opposite direction and that they are no longer the group shouting the loudest ? Looks like, at present, the petition has nearly a thousand signatures which is about 8% of the total population of East Dulwich (based on 2011 census details) and considering it's focusing only on one small area that's pretty convincing support against the road closures in my opinion

redpost Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Scenario one: > > drive to sainsburys, do the shop > back in car, stop off at the layby outside marks > and sparks to pick up some percy pigs (even though > parking not allowed here) > drive round the corner and park in melborne grove > for bi-weekly colonic irrigation appt > get back in car and swear at a cyclist on way > home > > Scenario two: > > drive to sainsburys do the shop > walk to marks > walk to business on melborne grove > perhaps stop for a coffee if you have time > walk back to car (you've got 3h free parking) > > > It's not difficult is it?? Scenario three Same as scenario one but necessary because you are disabled, elderly or have difficulty walking through some other condition. Sadly the measures being implemented are restrictive for the above groups and may even be against the equality act 2010 (although I'm not a lawyer) Do you really want to exclude them just so young and fit people can walk and cycle ? Before you reply , "There but for the grace of God goes thee" is worth considering!

march46 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > thebestnameshavegone Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > We need to have fewer car trips in London. It?s > > really simple. You?re either pro low traffic > > stuff. Or you?re pro more car congestion. > > > Well said. I heard a stat the other day that 1 in > 7 car journeys in London is under 1km - this isn't > sustainable. Making the car the least convenient > option and at the same time creating safer spaces > for people to walk and cycle is essential. Have the 1 in 7 stats identified what these under 1km journeys are for ? If they are, for example, family shopping runs to the supermarket then they are possibly justified. The information behind the stats is just as important as the stats themselves.

Maybe it's the council celebrating mugging off the car drivers with all these road changes If we're really lucky Peter John was the model for the Guy !

Hi I've just tried accessing the forum on an iPad retina 3 (old tech I know) and a couple of days ago it was fine but today I get "Safari cannot open this page because it could not establish a secure connection to the server" Has anything changed ?

How's this going ?

The good thing about this change of heart from Shapps is that councils will now need to consult on changes rather than dictate to their voters It may still result in the same changes occurring but at least people will feel that they've had their input to the process.

Can we bulldoze Tooley street to see if that helps ? Strangely predictive puts Toilet in when I type Tooley, maybe it knows something we don't 😆

Rockets Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As my wife so beautifully put it..."that's the > problem with this council, they dangle the carrot, > you take a bite and then they smack you round the > back of your head with a suede". The real problem is that they dangle a tasty carrot on front of a minority to get them to bite and endorse the schemes whilst burying the rest of the population to make manure to grow the walloping suede If there was a fair and just consultation first backed up with real world statistics I suspect people wouldn't vote the way the carrot munchers did. But we will never know as this council is so democratic (not)

Maybe rather than redevelopment the council should try advertising it as a bowling green, invite people to pay to play and see if it gets used Until this thread I didn't even know it was there and whilst I wouldn't use it, if people don't know a facility exists they won't know they can use it !