Where to go after East Dulwich?

[Cyclemonkey]

I suppose what comes around goes around. I grew up in a small coastal village in Kent and was priced out by Londoners downsizing or seeking second homes. So i moved to London for better work prospects. Not many of us are lucky to fidn work and affordable hosuign where we grew up.

[Otta]

niki_nje Wrote:

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> Otta, which route are you using exactly, by public

> transport it will take 45 minutes or 30 min cycle

> ride, so no it isn't 15 minutes away. Also why do

> you feel the patronising need to tell me about

> "reality" - I'm living it, dealing with it, that's

> my point.

Oh for God's sake, I wasn't being patronising. You said you were devastated to have to leave your home of 5 years, I said others (myself included) had to leave their home since birth, and that was the reality. That is not patronising, that's the reality I had to deal with, and now you're having to deal with, and the reason is largely gentrification.

I don't know where exactly in Anerly you'll be, but if you're 7 minutes away from CP Triangle, then I'd get a 63 / 363 (whichever one goes to CP these days, I don't use that route).

If you're nearer the Penge side, get a 176.

15 minutes might have been an exaggeration to be fair, but you'd do it well inside half hour, which isn't that bad surely?

Edit to add, sorry I missed your smiley on first reading, so may have taken your post more seriously than it was intended.

[Ron70]

miga Wrote:

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> A few threads lately talk about "positive signs"

> for a neighbourhood changing - things like nice

> cafes, gastro pubs, more bugaboos, whatever. Don't

> get me wrong, I also prefer this to boarded up

> shops and pound stores. But these symbols of

> gentrification are particular to an era and a

> fashion. I've been wondering if fairly outer

> suburbs like Catford or Penge can ever be

> gentrified in the Hackney sense - isn't this a

> young person's inner city kind of process? I just

> can't imagine somewhere 10 miles out of town ever

> being nice-ified in this way...too suburban for a

> start, not enough density of young people. There

> has to be a limit to gentrification, either in

> distance from the actual centre of town or in time

> from the gentrification trends of fancy cafes and

> gastropubs. If it's a process that continues

> indefinitely - where next after Catford and Penge?

> Bromley? Croydon? At some point in the distant

> past (like the 80s or 90s), you could (allegedly)

> get a place relatively inexpensively somewhere

> like Finsbury Park or Clapham, and do it up. It

> was cheap but reasonably central, not as nice as

> some areas, but at least convenient. Then over

> time those areas get nicer and therefore

> relatively more expensive, and the people that

> bought those places get the fancy cafes and

> restaurants that their expanding middle aged

> wallets can afford. Now the market seems to price

> in the multi-decade gentrification gains before

> they've even happened (and as I said earlier - I

> don't think it's a process that will work its way

> through every corner of London - it's too big and

> it'll take too long). That's what I've been

> thinking - it's not coherent, but it's Friday.

I agree with parts of this:

"Now the market seems to price in the multi-decade gentrification gains before

they've even happened".

I think Peckham is a good example of an area where people are paying crazy prices for properties because there seems to be quite a lot of talk about Peckham being "gentrified". I'm not knocking Peckham, I quite like it, but I'm on the bus on Rye Lane now and while I'm not sure exactly what the definition of gentrification is, I don't think this is it?

I suppose Bellend Road qualifies.

Ron70

[????]

Oh come on. i'm quite happy to bang on about class etc but in reality much of white working class London couldn't wait to get out of 'sh1thole' London for years only then they mainly blamed a different sort of incomer. Complete rubbish that middle class newcomers have somehow pushed them all away. in a global world, House prices aren't driven by the fact a couple of cup cake shops open on Hardship Lane.....even I'm bored of it all now

[Ron70]

I meant Bellenden Road obviously,

Ron70

[Otta]

njc97 Wrote:

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> Otta - isnt a "a nice place with things to do"

> just "somewhere gentrified"?

Not from my understanding of the word. I guess it depends how you define a nice place, and things to do. Surely you're then suggesting that a place that hasn't been gentrified is, by definition, not nice and has nothing to do?

I don't necessarily conflate gentrification with house prices, more the sort of businesses that open.

[Otta]

???? Wrote:

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> Oh come on. i'm quite happy to bang on about class

> etc but in reality much of white working class

> London couldn't wait to get out of 'sh1thole'

> London for years only then they mainly blamed a

> different sort of incomer. Complete rubbish that

> middle class newcomers have somehow pushed them

> all away. in a global world, House prices aren't

> driven by the fact a couple of cup cake shops open

> on Hardship Lane.....even I'm bored of it all now

You're right, these things seem to go in circles, and a lot of those that fled to Sidcup back in the day were probably doing it because they didn't like all the immigrants (just ask TonyLondonSuburbs). In the 80s there was lots of talk of yuppies, surely the first gentrifiers?

But I disagree that a couple of cupcake shops doesn't make a big difference to an area. Just look at a property suppliment, or an episode of location x 3 to see the eyes of an aspirational couple light up when they see the cafes and cheese shops on a high street.

[miga]

.

[niki_nje]

Otta, I used to tutor a boy in Crystal Palace, the money was good or I wouldn't have travelled all that way! It is over 40 minutes though still (I'm also 12 minutes from triangle). I will learn to drive my fianc?'s car, then it's only 15 minutes.

I couldn't live near my parents anyway, not because of gentrification but because there are no jobs, I understand the reality, but I didn't expect to be priced out within 5 years of this area (well 2 in the end) who does? I moved from Camberwell to the Peckham border as the rent was relatively cheap and the area a bit nicer. If I had known I would have rented in Crystal Palace from the start (although true to a poster earlier, this used to be more expensive!). 5 years is the longest I have lived anywhere since leaving home (as I had to move around for jobs) and I thought I had found somewhere I really liked and wanted to settle. Hopefully we can come back one day, or maybe I'll live Anerley and not want to leave, who knows!

Miga, I do agree, but when will it end?! And what will happen then? Will prices fall or just stop? I can't see how it can keep going on like this, but I also don't see how it will end.

njc97 you have hit the nail on the head there, I am a normal person, not particularly well off and what I meant by 'gentrification' was simply a nice place with things to do (which is how everyone seems to use the word these days). Somewhere I will be happy, and that could be down to community too - that's part of what I loved about East Dulwich and Peckham. I think people are reacting to the word "gentrification" rather than realising I am just sad about having to move into a not so nice area because it is all I can afford!! Peckham has loads of green space as miga says above and lots of creativity which has inspired me too. Anerley doesn't (yet) have that vibe.

[Cyclemonkey]

miga you can get a three bed in Peckham for ?300,000 or less if you are prepared to buy an Ex LA place in a less fashionable part of Peckham.

[Louisa]

Or for 300k you could buy a 4 bed detached new build in Milton Keynes (28 mins fast train to London).

Not that I'm condoning someone shopping Peckham for Milton Keynes.

Louisa.

[Seabag]

But, Anerley does have a good tool shop and a good cafe

And an Aldi's

[Jeremy]

Ron70, I know what you mean... I can't help wondering what people think, when they're read the hype about Peckham and then step out of the station onto Rye Lane.

There are creeping signs of gentrification along some of the side streets, and of course Bellenden Rd. But any newcomers who are hoping Peckham will turn into Clapham/ED/whatever are going to be seriously disappointed!

[Otta]

Surely no one wants Peckham to be the new ED. It's "edgier" (for want of a better word) and that is a good thing.

[LondonMix]

Agree. I think it's meant to be the new Shoreditch. I quite like it. It's got a fun young vibe but it doesn't feel like a full on scene yet.

I'm far too old for most of that but my friends with teenagers in the area are always there.

[DovertheRoad]

That's what happens when you get old. You can't tell when a scenes happening. :-)

[LondonMix]

Probably! :)

[Crissy]

Interesting about the discussion on gentrification...

I'm involved in the South Norwood regeneration group and I can say that all of us (I recall there were about 30+ people in the meeting)want change in the area. The change being wAnting shops (cafe, butchers and bakers)other than the jerk chicken places, hairdressers and chicken shops. We're that desperate for a coffee shop and since no indies are opening up we would welcome Costa Coffee or Starbucks with open arms. I can say this we're no wanting gentrification, but just a few decent shops and a pub to go to. Instead of having to go to Beckenham or Crystal Palace. Believe me, there's a whole market of people not being catered, so you cannot blame us for wanting things that are considered basic in ED

There are a lot of newcomers to the area that have come from West Norwood, Herne Hill and Crystal Palace that are used to these basics and wAnt them here (me too).

The area is run down, but I love SE25, there's great community spirit. I just want to stay in my area rather than travelling to other areas for chilling out. As mentioned in a previous post, there are great parks (South Norwood Lakes and South Norwood Country Park). I notice that Norwood Junction station is changing - it's getting busier, especially the fast train to London Bridge.

The road leading to the station will change too (if our plans come to fruition). Aldi are coming in February, so I'm sure that will help the area a little.

To the original poster - do check out SE25 (the area near the Lakes and the Country Park). I came from ED (and met a couple who lived off Bellenden Road) and haven't regretted the decision coming here.

[Ctheo]

The Ship. It has nice old interior, but needs a steam clean and few plants in the beer garden. I think it's under new management now.

[ednewmy]

As the OP, I'm going to resurrect this post as I have, despite bringing the topic up 10 months ago, only started looking seriously and with intent in the last couple of months due to finance only now becoming available. I have seen about 20 places all over SE London and the areas that keep cropping up within price range are Penge, Anerley, Sydenham and South Norwood. Realistically my top top budget now is 280-290k for a 2 bed flat, and they seem to be out there if you look well enough.

Anerley and South Norwood seem the most affordable, yet in both cases there is a lack of a decent high street (price of course reflects this I'm sure). I'm not asking for Lordship Lane-like high streets here, it doesn't need to have all the fluffy bells and whistles. On LL I regularly use the co-op, SMBS, pharmacies, Dulwich DIY, AJ Farmer, Post Office and Dulwich Supermarket. So it's more a question to me of nearby practical "useful" (to use estate agents' term) shops. Penge and Sydenham high streets seem that they could offer equivalents, whereas Anerley has no high street to speak of, and South Norwood seems to offer a high street of chicken shops, nail bars, vacant shops and Crystal Palace supporters pubs.

South Norwood *looks* like it has potential - for instance the area around the station approach and clock tower is attractive (though feels very tatty at the moment), but is that enough for useful small businesses to want to open up there? In my mind hardware stores, green grocers, fishmongers etc are the kinds of businesses you hear about having been in areas for decades, and not opening up anew - is South Norwood simply too far gone to ever have a lively high street? I hear that Barclays have recently left the area and the post office has moved into a convenience store - evidence even of decline rather than improvement?

My worry with South Norwood if I buy there is that it's a bit of a black hole in a sea of reasonable areas that are improving, and it won't see any trickle over affect. Rather, it will become/remain a forgotten about area as all investment and businesses head into the surrounding parts of SE, and more shops and businesses will close and leave South Norwood. I know central Croydon is receiving a lot of investment but this doesn't seem to include any of its surrounding areas.

Anyway, I am rambling now. Viewing flats in South Norwood, Anerley and Croydon this week. Oh and Woolwich just to keep me on my toes!

Any input most welcome.

[ratty]

Look at West Wickham

[Ladysaw]

Ednewmy

Work at the moment is at North Greenwich, so Sydenham would be good were it near to the overground station,

Hiya. We move out in 3 weeks time TO NORTH GREENWICH !!! We have been living in ED for three years and bought at GMV.. check it out.. The new phase ought to start selling soon. ..

BW

[Townleygreen]

Woolwich and Abbey Wood are going to be on the new Crossrail service so anything you buy there should grow faster in value than anywhere else on your list.

Otherwise, the best high street on your list is Penge, plus it's improving fast.

Anerley hasn't much , but it's just down the hill from Crystal Palace, which is amazing for shops, bars and restaurants.

[Otta]

Penge feels like it's changing at a very fast pace.

I don't believe anywhere in London will get left behind in the way that you're worries South Norwood will. It might just take a bit longer to catch up, but it's not going to be some ghetto surrounded by nice areas.

[PhilPhilPhil]

I have a friend who bought in Anerley a few years back, having decided he couldn't afford Crystal Palace, and he's very pleased with it. Value of his flat has risen dramatically and he says there has been a definite improvement in the quality of local shops, pubs etc since he's been there. It's easy to get to Crystal Palace from there and also Penge which, as other posters have said, is improving fast.