New Zebra Crossing on Lordship Lane.

[karter]

The council are asking residents and business owners on their opinion on having a new zebra crossing outside Somerfield and raising the ends of roads from Chesterfield down to the roundabout to reduce speed on the side roads. They also are asking whether the crossings at the roundabout should be refurbished. All of this would improve safety when crossing and improve safetey for cyclists but one of the schemes could affect the buslane. Good news for the elderly and parents with buggies. LL can be very tricky to cross, i'm not sure about how many fatalities there have been to warrant this but personally i think the whole plan is a good idea. It's not good news for Somerfields and shops on the strip as parking places would be lifted and could have a negative impact on businesses and shopping (Hugue, jump in any time i am waiting for you).:) A crossing is overdue along that strip in my opinion.

[Marmora Man]

Would this new crossing outside Somerfields be in addition to the Pelican crossing beside of Iceland? The one that is about 45 yards from Somerfields?

If there is to be an additional crossing the whole lane should be considered.

We already have 3 crossings between EDT roundabout and the Magnolia and at, roughly, 250 yards apart seem practical for both pedestrians and through traffic.

* Zebra crossing by the EDT - Fine.

* Pelican crossing by Iceland - Fine

* Pelican crossing just down from Le Chandelier - Fine

* New crossing - where?

The other changes I support - slowing car speeds in side roads is a good proposal.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm inclined to agree with karter on this one although I see where MM is coming from.

Somerfield generates a lot of footfall and with the banks being next door, that spot is pretty much where I usually want to cross. Agreed the Iceland one is only up the road but the pavement between Somefield and Iceland is narrow, already has a bus stop taking up space and so anyone with bags/pushchairs would benefit

[boosboss]

karter Wrote:

i'm not sure about how many fatalities there have been to warrant this

That did make me laugh! Is there a minimum requirement? lol ;-)

That's where I normally want to cross too, so I'm for it in principle (sp?al?) :)

[LuvPeckham]

not making a comment either way, however look at Sydenham High Street for an example of too many crossings and what impact it has on traffic both along the high street and down side roads...

Maybe reviewing where the existing crossings are sited would be a better exercise

Also I do love this time of year when local councils suddenly find funds for this sort of work before the end of the year (April) occurs and they loose their underspend... I wish council departments were rewarded for saving local residents money rather then peanilsed for not spending it... :-S

[SimonM]

Putting a pedestrian crossing there is something of an old chestnut, usually objected to by local traders and with some justification given the number of parking/drop-off spaces - for both customer cars and delivery vans - that would be cut. You already have the hazard there of the traffic exiting from Matham Grove on to LL or across it so adding a crossing here is not going to be simple but on the whole I think it is desirable for the reasons Sean gives.

I think for pedestrians, buggy (etc) users the most hazardous point is the junction of LL with East Dulwich Grove, where basically you have to look three ways - and if you're crossing in a northern direction it can be very awkward spotting cars turning left into EDR from behind you. The islanded crossing by the EDT in theory ought to be the trickiest but I always find it fairly simple to negotiate. I don't think pelicans on the GG roundabout would be a good idea as the effects on congestion would be horrendous.

[TJ]

I think the council would do well to spend their money refurbishing the pavement from the palmeston to Goose green. Is way too narrow, too uneven with too much street furniture to accommodate the masses ranks of prams.

The raised crossings are a good idea too.

It would be nice to make the area nor walking friendly without making it a total nightmare for cars. We need both modes of transport to work well - pedestrians are in short supply at 10 on a tuesday and therefore should not have automatic row (right of way) 24/7.

[Zebedee Tring]

A pedestrian crossing is certainly needed between North Cross Road and the Goose Green roundabout. This must be the most intensively shopped part of LL, and people are therefore tempted to cross the road at dangerous points.

[karter]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> A pedestrian crossing is certainly needed between

> North Cross Road and the Goose Green roundabout.

> This must be the most intensively shopped part of

> LL, and people are therefore tempted to cross the

> road at dangerous points.

This has been on the cards for a while now. The council has sent out consultation questionnaires to residents and businesses in the area so you should be receiving them this week. Won't it be fun to see that crazy 185 bus driver speeding over that raised zebra crossing, don't forget to hold on tight.

[Keef]

I'd put it a bit further towards the Bishop, otherwise just too close to the Iceland crossing.

[Strawbs]

Are you talking one with lights to stop traffic or just a normal one?

[karter]

They are saying just a normal one, raised though. Some people are thinking that the council are doing this as they must spend the cash by their end of year. Whichever the case may be, the issue is here and must be dealt with. People must vote.

Keef has a good point, traffic lights at the East Dulwich Grove section may help too.

edited to say Grove not Road

[will dex]

above arguements accepted, BUT, i find myself crossing dangerously to Somerfield at least once per week and i think most could say the same. I do not walk to iceland crossing as that would involve crossing north cross road (no pedestrian crossing) anyway thus no point walking to existing crossing.

i think it depends how much it will afeect local traders.

[bluecanary]

I very much doubt it would make much difference to those pedestrians who tend to just wander out wherever they feel like it, usually only a couple of feet away from the Iceland crossing or the Zebra at the roundabout.

I've only been driving on a full licence for 7 months, but have covered a lot of ground in that time, East Sussex, Kent, & Norfolk as well as visiting St Thomas' several times yet I find Lordship Lane the most hazardous road and drive anxiously along it from Mount Adon Park to Dog Kennel Hill twice a day, both ways whilst taking my son to school.

It's not just the pedestrians, it's cars pulling out of bays without indicating, the motorbikes that travel at full pelt up the wrong side and the cyclists that cut you up left right and centre. I hate it. Someone posted quite recently about a grim faced woman that had refused to stop for a minute to let them cross. That was probably me. Can't stop for you all or else I'd never get anywhere! Although obviously once someone has pushed their buggy out in front of me whilst looking the other way as they chat on their mobile, or any variation thereoff I am forced to.

[Claire29]

Why dont people who need to go to various shops on different sides of the road try walking to the crossing at iceland or goose green -it's not a million miles away and if it causes you that much inconvinience why not just go to sainsburys where you can do your shopping in one place without crossing any roads!

Also I hate it when I see people pushing prams/ young kids accross the road near somerfields, these kids will grow up thinking it's normal not to use crossings.

Some sort of crossing on east dulwich grove/lordship lane would be a good idea.

[will dex]

yeah, thats sorted then, lets all shop at sainsbury's -thanks.

[matthew123]

They should definately have a crossing near Somerfield, plus the line of sight is difficult on that bend. In fact I'd say make it a Pelican crossing to deal with the dopey drivers who will charge straight across a zebra crossing like they do at Goose Green roundabout.

[charliecharlie]

Somerfield may be about to go... does this change the debate???

I think the crossing on LL at Goose Green end is too close to the roundabout... causes all sorts of odd configurations to happen to both cars and those crossing there

how about they leave the Iceland crossing where it is and just have one more near the Bishop - removing the one on LL by roundabout

(the existing Somerfield is on a bend so it might be better on a straighter bit of road nearer G Green)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7508982.stm

[SimonM]

I think if you removed the crossing(s) by the EDT you would just encourage more dangerous, illicit crossings by pedestrians: plus it makes more sense having crossings at a major junction

[Zaardvark]

Does anyone think that the crossings of LL at the GG rounadabout would not be necessary if there was a pedestrian crossing at LL/East Duwich Grove?

best

Z

[Huguenot]

I'm loving bluecanary's work ;-)

"It's not just the pedestrians, it's cars pulling out of bays without indicating, the motorbikes that travel at full pelt up the wrong side and the cyclists that cut you up left right and centre. I hate it. Someone posted quite recently about a grim faced woman that had refused to stop for a minute to let them cross. That was probably me. Can't stop for you all or else I'd never get anywhere!"

In other words, everyone except me, me, and a bit more me!

Where do you shop bc? Where do you go out to dinner, or have a quick drink, or have a pleasant afternoon stroll? Where do you chat with your neighbours and window shop? I've got a healthy ten bucks in my pocket that reckons that you do none of the above in ED?

It will be utterly impossible for a driver to appreciate the challenges of LL unless they accept that ED is a community. Get out more. You'll be happier. :)

[KalamityKel]

This extra crossing at Somerfield "idea" has popped up many times over the years... why has it not gone through? What were the arguments for and against?

I really can't see how "road safety" would be improved by placing a silly crossing at this point. Placing a crossing on a bend (however slight it is) is a ridiculous idea. Large vehicles already have enough trouble passing each other on this stretch when trying to navigate around parked cars/delivery vans. Pushing cars to park further up or down the road wouldn't solve the problem - it would still be there where drivers can't see around properly creating the same risk of people suddenly popping across the road or the possibility of bumping other cars.

As it is many pedestrians ignore the already existing crossings down the lane and either stroll across the road at any clear point or appear from no where with out any thought for drivers and have the view "well drivers should drive more carefully". Maybe we should just make Lordship Lane a pedestrianised area and be done with all the bother! Well, if the council can come up with such wonderful ideas I don't see why I can't! ;-)

Where are the Somerfield Lorries planning on unloading if this plan gets the go ahead? Ashborne isn't wide enough to accommodate large vehicles.

As to the raised tables - do they ever work? Can the council provide accurate reports of their successfulness in other areas which would make it worth while? I mean REAL reports.

With mention of the scheme to improve "pedestrian/cycling road safety" - excuse my ignorance but where is there any mention or suggestion that cyclists would be more safer on the roads?

Also, "During 2007 a walking audit of this area was carried out by Southwark Living Streets together with council engineers..." are we not now in 2009? Surely this would make any study now seriously out of date? Yes, it's easy to say "it's always been like that" but how many residents (given numbers of newcomers in this space of time) can really say what it's "always been like" which could be used in a proper survey?

In recent times in various surrounding areas plenty of traffic/road adjustments or road works have affected the area meaning more cars are using the roads (main and back streets). Has this been taken into consideration? What would the effects be to other areas in return? Yet more congestion and complaints I'm sure.

[fractionater]

The proposed crossing outside Scumerfield will create more traffic on LL and make it more dangerous! The EDT roundabout already gets congested, and then trafic turning right onto E.dul grove causes further congestion.

Add a crossing outside Scummerfield and you will ad a further congestion point into the mix which will no doubt have knock-on effects for traffic down towards EDT!...and don't forget the loss of at least 12 parking spaces too!

I think a Zebra crossing point at the Grove Vale exit\Entry to the LL roundabout would be better.

[Moos]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> In other words, everyone except me, me, and a bit

> more me!

Well that saved me a post.

[davidm]

The problem with the crossing will be the loss of the parking bay outside sommerfield. These cars will need to park somewhere and that will be in the sideroads in the vicinity of the supermarket. I live on Matham Grove and it is already difficult to park without additional cars unable to park outside the supermarket.

Secondly I believe that crossings are designed to limit road casualties. Have there been any incidents that justify an additional crossing at this point?